Great Dwilight War:Astrum defeats Asylon and Farronite forces.

[Geronus]

It's not a crusade, it's basically the 30 Years War. Some of the parallels are quite striking.

For our part, we of the true faith will call it the War of Usurpation, or maybe the War of Niselurian Rebellion, depending on who wins and who loses 

[Arrakis]

The notions that SA will be destroyed simply because some of the borders might be redrawn is really a hysterical observation. Especially since no Niselurian will purposefully destroy any temples or arrest any priests unprovoked, as has been ordained by Leopold to his nobles. After all, the war has not yet even properly developed and from my perspective it will be an even one - which was my goal all of the time for easy gangbangs are not what I envisioned for Dwilight. No need to go crazy and threaten with leaving the game; that's just bad sportsmanship. The excommunication that occurred is likely to have worse effect than what the Elders hoped for. In fact, with this they are probably destroying the Faith faster than Leopold ever could even if he wanted to. I guess time will tell, eh?

The fact that some are being judgemental about the Niselurian casus belli is really a negative approach to the game events. I have done massive preparations for this, tried to involve everyone IC as much as I could and done the best I could to tell a believable tale. Granted, I didn't manage to do it perfectly for that would take double the time. Time which I don't always have. But if our casus belli is not to your liking, then tough luck. Until you can do it better your objections don't really matter. Browsing over European history everyone could find similar wars based around these sort of events, so I believe it has been done in the spirit of the game and SMA. In the center of the war is the clear distinction between two sides thinking they know better what the faith is, and have decided to battle over it.

[Indirik]

Why does it matter what the reason is? Everything in Battlemaster is just reasons to have, you know, battles. We know what the true reasoning is, but better charter stuff is a casus belli that they can gather their allies under.

Indeed, we are all here to have fun wars.

Yet saying things like "We want to change the charter" gives an OOC impression that going to war is the only way to do it. Or that this is the real reason to have the war. Yet that simply is not true. Niselur never once tried to actually change the charter, or even exert any kind of influence on the church in any way.

[Indirik]

...the playerbase should respect SA's inherent right to rule on Dwilight forevermore!

Damn straight! 

[Anaris]

The notions that SA will be destroyed simply because some of the borders might be redrawn is really a hysterical observation.

Unless I am significantly misunderstanding, that is not what is being said here.

The fear is not that SA will be destroyed, but rather that it will lose its hegemony and its power over the doings of realms—which will destroy what makes it unique and special in BattleMaster, and reduce it to being just another flavour-of-the-month also-ran religion, like nearly every other religion in the whole game.

[Stabbity]

If we follow the "crus" in "crusade" back through Latin and French, the proper replacement term would be "Astrade" anyway.

Do we really want our holy wars pronounced as "ass-trades"?

[Lorgan]

In other words SA's uniqueness is inextricably tied to the hegemony of the Astrum-Morek federation.

[Stabbity]

In other words SA's uniqueness is inextricably tied to the hegemony of the Astrum-Morek federation.

Which makes it a uniqueness not worth saving TBH. Another power will rise in its place sooner or later.

[Anaris]

In other words SA's uniqueness is inextricably tied to the hegemony of the Astrum-Morek federation.

I'm not sure I'd exactly say that.

What its uniqueness is based on is, as Indirik has said, the willingness of many characters—including those in positions of power within Astrum and Morek—to subordinate themselves to the Church.

Even if Astrum and Morek did not have the kind of power they do within Dwilight—if they were realms in positions more like Luria, with enough power to defend themselves, but (at least until recently) very little influence beyond the geographic area they are in—Sanguis Astroism would still be something special because of its influence over the realms.

It is, I think, the very thing that many people are pushing for—the removal of Sanguis Astroism's power over the Astroist realms—that will destroy what makes Sanguis Astroism so different and worthwhile.

[Anaris]

Which makes it a uniqueness not worth saving TBH. Another power will rise in its place sooner or later.

No, I really don't think it will. Not a religious power, anyway.

I agree with Indirik that it's not likely for another religion, without the special circumstances Sanguis Astroism enjoyed surrounding its creation, to be able to gain the kind of power Sanguis Astroism has. You need near-complete buy-in from not only most of a realm, but from multiple realms, and not just in terms of allowing the religion to gain game-mechanic power, but in being willing to do what the Church's elders say in areas pertaining to the Church's business. Not because of the threat that they will auto da fe your lords, claim what regions they can, and drive the rest rogue with their priests—but because you truly believe they have spiritual and moral authority over you.

Can you honestly say that you think that another religion will rise up that can achieve this, if Sanguis Astroism loses these qualities forever?

[Stabbity]

Sanguis Astroism's influence over the Dwi realms need not be broken by this. In fact thats generally not whats being pushed for. Niselur nonwithstanding. No one on either side (save some in Asylon) have a problem with SA, they have a problem with a number of the Elders, and as much as indivduals on the forum want to cry out how no one has tried to change the charter, they're not grasping the problem. Because they're the problem.

[Lorgan]

Looking at it from an outsider's perspective, I would think that SA policy has so far been dominated by the interests of Astrum and Morek (or at what instance did the Church do something that went against the interest of those two powers?) and will see it's true power, as an independent supranational institution, grow in a politically fragmented but still religiously united North.

[Sarwell]

Do we really want our holy wars pronounced as "ass-trades"?

Well, those are the only two things that kept Terran alive for the past two months.

[Meneldur]

Sanguis Astroism's influence over the Dwi realms need not be broken by this. In fact thats generally not whats being pushed for. Niselur nonwithstanding. No one on either side (save some in Asylon) have a problem with SA, they have a problem with a number of the Elders, and as much as indivduals on the forum want to cry out how no one has tried to change the charter, they're not grasping the problem. Because they're the problem.

I can see this as being the position of the Farronite Republic (who I imagine want an Elders Council that will accept them as a "theocratic realm" and look out of their interests as though they were a theocracy) but who else really wants this?
Luria sounds like its just along for the ride so they can destroy D'Hara without Morekian interference, and Niselur seems to be against "ecclesiastical tyranny" over "soverign rulers"- pretty much the reduction of SA to a compliant flavor religion. In fact a mere glance at the recent string of messages in the SA channel seems to indicate that at least among the more vocal of the secularists, from Libero to Niselur to D'Hara, the main theme is that the Elders should "stick to spiritual matters" and stay out of the affairs of realms.

[Anaris]

Luria sounds like its just along for the ride so they can destroy D'Hara without Morekian interference

That's certainly part of it, but if you look at what Alice has said about Morek's attempts at playing the patriarch to the poor benighted realms to their south, that's a very real concern and frustration. Since the founding of Dwilight, there has always been at least a shadow of Morek's power looming to the north, warning Lurians not to dare to become too powerful, or stray beyond what they find acceptable, or they'd come and punish Luria for it.

It's time to end that fear. Or die trying.