Stepping Down from Permanent Position

Kwanstein · July 04, 2013, 07:22:59 PM

The only way to leave a permanent position is to step down from office, but doing so costs honour and prestige. This is rather unforgiving, as you could spend years in a position and still have to leave it in 'disgrace,' rather than retire honourably. I think that this one size fits all punishment should be made to distinguish those who leave after a limited period of time from those who leave after an extended period of time, by waving the costs for the latter.

One more mention. When I attempted to have one of my characters leave one of his positions, he recieved this message:

QuoteIt looks like you did not quite understand the point of giving a reason.
Your realm mates should know just why you leave your position, and you should write at least one complete sentence. Really. Go back and try again.

Despite writing several sentences in explanation. I'm guessing that the game judges the explanation based on it's length; in that case it should say as much and not blame number of sentences instead. This is a minor issue.

Anaris · July 04, 2013, 08:07:22 PM

The honour and prestige loss for stepping down after a reasonable length of time is not a punishment. It is part of how honour and prestige work.

When you show that you are willing to give up a position of such power, and back out of the oaths you swore to the people you governed, that, in itself, shows you to be a less honourable and prestigious person than you were seen to be yesterday.

As for the reason...it's about length; you have to give an explanation that's probably around 80-100 characters minimum. I don't remember the exact details.

Kwanstein · July 04, 2013, 10:10:22 PM

I see potential for abuse here. A ruler or duke could appoint a noble to a position such as general or marshal and the noble would have no recourse except to accept the titles or to forsake them at the cost of honour and prestige. What is to stop a duke from causing his nobles grief by continuously bestowing them titles that they don't want?

Alpha · July 04, 2013, 10:11:43 PM

Quote from: Kwanstein on July 04, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
I see potential for abuse here. A ruler or duke could appoint a noble to a position such as general or marshal and the noble would have no recourse except to accept the titles or to forsake them at the cost of honour and prestige. What is to stop a duke from causing his nobles grief by continuously bestowing them titles that they don't want?

You can refuse titles under the paperwork page.

Anaris · July 04, 2013, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: Kwanstein on July 04, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
I see potential for abuse here. A ruler or duke could appoint a noble to a position such as general or marshal and the noble would have no recourse except to accept the titles or to forsake them at the cost of honour and prestige. What is to stop a duke from causing his nobles grief by continuously bestowing them titles that they don't want?

The Magistrates.

That's griefing and abuse, and should never be tolerated.

Plus, like Alpha says, you can refuse any title on your Paperwork page. (Except, currently, Duke, but I'm working on that.)

Indirik · July 04, 2013, 11:07:15 PM

If they appoint you to a title you don't want, just ignore it. So you're the lord of Kepler Woods, so what? Ignore it, and move on. Or swap it to a new duchy/realm. Tear down all the RCs and buildings. Crank up the taxes and make it revolt. Prove how much of an idiot he is.

Chenier · July 05, 2013, 01:43:35 AM

Quote from: Indirik on July 04, 2013, 11:07:15 PM
If they appoint you to a title you don't want, just ignore it. So you're the lord of Kepler Woods, so what? Ignore it, and move on. Or swap it to a new duchy/realm. Tear down all the RCs and buildings. Crank up the taxes and make it revolt. Prove how much of an idiot he is.

Doesn't causing it to revolt cost you h/p?

Regardless... penalties for stepping down are rather minor...

Stabbity · July 05, 2013, 03:05:31 AM

Quote from: Kwanstein on July 04, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
I see potential for abuse here. A ruler or duke could appoint a noble to a position such as general or marshal and the noble would have no recourse except to accept the titles or to forsake them at the cost of honour and prestige. What is to stop a duke from causing his nobles grief by continuously bestowing them titles that they don't want?

Yea, punish me by giving me power, smart. Like what has been said, use the power they just gave you to punish them back.

Velax · July 05, 2013, 04:49:42 AM

Quote from: Kwanstein on July 04, 2013, 10:10:22 PM
A ruler or duke could appoint a noble to a position such as general or marshal and the noble would have no recourse except to accept the titles or to forsake them at the cost of honour and prestige. What is to stop a duke from causing his nobles grief by continuously bestowing them titles that they don't want?

The hell? What sort of psychopaths are you playing with?

Anaris · July 05, 2013, 05:10:59 AM

Quote from: Velax on July 05, 2013, 04:49:42 AM
The hell? What sort of psychopaths are you playing with?

This is BattleMaster. Have you met our players? :P

Velax · July 05, 2013, 06:10:25 AM

...you make a good point.

Stabbity · July 05, 2013, 09:29:42 AM

The dolphin puppets will be waiting for both of you on IRC.

Scarlett · July 05, 2013, 03:28:05 PM

BM can't seem to decide which out-of-context punishments it wants to inflict on you: remove you from power because you landed in a dungeon for a few days (but with no h/p cost) or arbitrarily dock you a half-dozen battles' worth of honor and prestige because you elected to step down? One method prizes turnover and the other is trying to prevent abuse but isn't smart enough to know context.

For some positions I could make a case that there's just no stepping down right away: ruler would certainly be one, maybe Duke. General, Banker, and region lord? Eh.

Sarwell · July 05, 2013, 04:44:29 PM

I do believe there should be a way to step down from office without losing honor or prestige, but that's a topic for another thread, I suppose. There are cases where a leader chooses to step down after a "life" term just because they want their character to take up a "simpler" life or let people choose someone else, and I don't think the game should punish them for it.

Anaris · July 05, 2013, 08:07:56 PM

Quote from: Sarwell on July 05, 2013, 04:44:29 PM
I do believe there should be a way to step down from office without losing honor or prestige, but that's a topic for another thread, I suppose. There are cases where a leader chooses to step down after a "life" term just because they want their character to take up a "simpler" life or let people choose someone else, and I don't think the game should punish them for it.

Again: it's not punishment. Honour and prestige aren't "progress points" or in-game currency: they are an in-game representation of two important aspects of reputation. Certain things cause a noble's reputation to suffer. Stepping down from a position of power is one of them.

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Stepping Down from Permanent Position