Author Topic: Conspiracy to use Titans as weapon against player  (Read 2173 times)

BattleMaster Server

  • Guest
Summary:Conspiracy to use Titans as weapon against player
Violation:Clause 2: Fair Play
World:East Continent
Complainer:Ryan Baldock
About:Simon Willems

Full Complaint Text:
As evidenced from the IRC logs found in this post:


http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4420.msg112597.html#msg112597


Simon has openly admitted to discussing filing a Titans case against the now-former player of the Dobromir family for the reason that he disliked the player (in specifics: "I'm happy to oblige against Dobby"). He discussed this with Atanamir and also considered bringing in Woelfy in to assist with the endeavour.


There are two offences present based on the logs in the linked post. The first is a violation of the verbal insults part ("he's a douche player" (sic)). The second is the conspiracy to make a Titan complaint not because there was credible evidence of a multi-account rules breach but because the player in question was disliked by Simon. I would class this under the "Do not accuse of cheating without evidence" part of Clause 2.

Menethil

  • Knight
  • **
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Just for reference I read all the logs.  The player Simon in question has always hated on myself and especially Dobromir.  For him it was fun to talk and join in and the hate and everyone knows he does these things for his own personal fun.  I would take it with a grain of salt.

Further down the conversation when things got really serious into him using the info ingame it was obviously apparantly that he wanted no more to do with it and backed out.

Im not saying what he said was right.  But I feel since the player he was talking about was me in question and I know how his and my relationship has been over the past 4-5 years I dont feel the player was being serious about anything and simply playing along.

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
Two things:

1) That was a private conversation. The only reason it has been revealed publicly is as evidence in another Magistrate case. Had Fleugs said this directly to Menethil, Menethil could file a complaint, but that's not what happened, and for his part Menethil doesn't seem to care.

2) The line in the Social Contract reads: "Do not publicly accuse anyone of cheating, abuses or violations of this contract without proof or evidence." See above.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't lock this thread right now.

Chaotrance13

  • Guest
Two things:

1) That was a private conversation. The only reason it has been revealed publicly is as evidence in another Magistrate case. Had Fleugs said this directly to Menethil, Menethil could file a complaint, but that's not what happened, and for his part Menethil doesn't seem to care.

2) The line in the Social Contract reads: "Do not publicly accuse anyone of cheating, abuses or violations of this contract without proof or evidence." See above.

Give me one good reason why I shouldn't lock this thread right now.

Because getting the Titans involved (or in this case, saying you should) because you don't like the player rather than because of an actual rules violation is still a breach of the rules whether the conversation was in private or not. How is "Make a Titan Complaint because I don't like the player" NOT a breach of the rules?

It may be that it falls more under the "harassment" section of Clause 2 than the "cheating" section in which case I've misinterpreted it. But either way, using the Titans against someone because you are hostile to them (and have stated as much in threads in this forum with regards to the hostility) is abusing the system and harassing the targeted player.

If you're going to dismiss this based on what is basically a lawyering point, then there should be a consensus between multiple Magistrates that there is no case to answer instead of one vigilante Magistrate deciding he is Judge, Jury and Executioner on his own. I thought the system was based on consensus or votes, not dictatorship. If more people weighed in with whether they thought there was a case or not and it was decided to be the latter, then not a problem, we move on.

And in future, watch your damned tone when someone makes a complaint. I don't like writing the bloody things out and I tend to deliberate quite strongly on whether it's necessary or not. Being a dick to someone when they make a complaint is against the spirit of the system and does not encourage use of it at all, among other things. I know you like to play Big Man on Campus as you have done in the other thread, but that does not give you the right nor authority to talk down to me. I am a human being as well, strangely enough.

Stabbity

  • Marketing
  • Mighty Duke
  • *****
  • Posts: 1228
  • Formerly the Himoura Family. Currently ?????????
    • View Profile
I see no evidence here that is thoroughly convincing of one thing or the other. I see specific selections of text, and everyone knows a few lines read completely out of context is not a basis for any sort of case for anything.
Life is a dance, it is only fitting that death sing the tune.

Anaris

  • BM Dev Team
  • Honourable King
  • *
  • Posts: 7722
    • View Profile
There was never a Titans case filed against Menethil by Simon Willems for anything related to this case.

This looks totally baseless to me.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

^ban^

  • BM Dev Team
  • Mighty Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 1056
  • Le Genie
    • View Profile
Even if a case had been filed...

A player is not notified that a titan case has been brought against them.

This is intentional. If a complaint is filed, and the titans see no grounds for it, it gets rejected and they don't examine it any further.

The system was designed so that complaints could be filed, and rejected, without starting a public outcry. This is in no small part why the Magistrates will never handle most the more egregious cases of cheating.

Basically: Everything Geronus is correct, and you can't have harassment if absolutely no one but the person complaining is aware of the act. Unless you can find actual ground to stand on I'll close this myself.
Born in Day they knew the Light; Rulers, prophets, servants, and warriors.
Life in Night that they walk; Gods, heretics, thieves, and murderers.
The Stefanovics live.

Chaotrance13

  • Guest
Edit: Fine, whatever. Sick and tired of it being implied that I'm a [email protected]#$ing retard by people in this game recently. I'm done, don't need the damned stress of being talked to like a [email protected]#$ing child.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:44:50 AM by Ravier »

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
I have moved Ravier's IRC questions to the Q&A thread. They are relevant questions, but are probably better addressed in the general sense since they are not specific to this case. The new topic is here:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,4425.0.html

Geronus

  • Honourable King
  • *****
  • Posts: 2332
  • Dum dee dum dee dum
    • View Profile
For the record, I did ask the other Magistrates if they objected to me locking this thread. As of this time, three others have concurred including ^ban^ and none have objected.

It will be locked for the reasons cited: We do not find that this case has any standing.

If it is felt that this has been done unjustly, please contact Tom directly to appeal.