Author Topic: Player Harassment and Creation of a Toxic Atmosphere  (Read 17312 times)

Munro

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Is there a reason it's taking so long to reach a verdict? This case was started well over a month ago and it's now been well over a week since we heard it would take a day or so to hear the final verdict.

Indirik

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Discussion on this case is closed. The vote has already been taken, and the verdict is being written.
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^ban^

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Quoting from Backroom discussion just to get this out here. If any Magistrates wanted this amended they should have spoken up in the last month.

Quote
A verdict has been reached, and IG enforcement actions have been taken. For anyone who desires to cite this case in the future, the final verdict is:

"After consideration, the Magistrates find the defendants Not Guilty. We recognize that the player bringing the case feels that he has been harassed, but the pattern of behavior is, overall, relatively unobjectionable. We will close this case with a simple admonition to the players who were reported:  Please take the plaintiff's feelings into account and try to remember them when determining how to interact with him in the future. As ever, there's no call for rudeness, and whether we agree that what happened was harassment or not, the plaintiff did and does and those are valid feelings to have. Please do your best to make sure that he continues to feel welcome in the game and the community despite any disagreements you might have with him or his characters. We expect no less from anyone who plays the game.

Magistrates voted 4-0 in favor of a Not Guilty verdict.

This thread will remain open for any questions regarding the case."


Moderator note: ^ban^ posted the verdict for a different case. I have edited this post to quote the actual verdict for this case.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 06:49:05 PM by Indirik »
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Indirik

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Thread unlocked for a few days to allow for discussion of the verdict.
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^ban^

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Hah, whoops. My bad!
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Eirikr

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I'd like to specifically ask whether the specific message from Jason about "Hammargays", etc. was considered. I'd rather not start a second case if it's already been considered and is determined to be resolved, but I also believe it warrants its own attention for a different reason than the original complaint here.

I don't want to seem like we're just trying to throw everything we can at Elegant, but it needs to be clear that such messages are unacceptable.

Elegant

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Bro, I have often used the word "Hammarguys" (you can ask realm council, if they remember). I do not know how did I let that mistake happen in both the letters, i.e., the word "hammargays" (I was traveling in train and the game pressure was on). I did not mean to type that word referring to "gays", all I meant was "guys". If any gay person/general public is offended, I offer my apology. Anyway, it is a mistake and I bear the full responsibility of typing it, without offering any excuses, ready to take punishment.

I don't want to seem like we're just trying to throw everything we can at Elegant

You have thrown everything you could on me in this thread and it seems that you are not satisfied with the outcome. Punishing the player of Jason seems to be your top priority (instead of punishing the character Jason using your char in game). I did a mistake in poor word, but of course, please feel free to take this opportunity to file another case in front of whole game and further humiliate me by writing long posts explaining and magnifying the matter. For your satisfaction, I have already surrendered before you.

Elegant

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I would like to say something to Silverfire.

Although Jason and Merlin may not become friends again, you and me can become great friends. You are always welcome. You already have my personal message which was sent long before this verdict was posted and you have replied to it. In-game actions are just for in-game.

(One of the best online friends I have, was once upon a time, my worst enemy and we used to catapult each other's villages)

Geronus

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That seems like a sufficient explanation to me.

For future reference, we will not tolerate any offensive language that relates to issues of race or sexuality in the real world.

Eirikr

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Bro, I have often used the word "Hammarguys" (you can ask realm council, if they remember). I do not know how did I let that mistake happen in both the letters, i.e., the word "hammargays" (I was traveling in train and the game pressure was on). I did not mean to type that word referring to "gays", all I meant was "guys". If any gay person/general public is offended, I offer my apology. Anyway, it is a mistake and I bear the full responsibility of typing it, without offering any excuses, ready to take punishment.

I don't want to seem like we're just trying to throw everything we can at Elegant

You have thrown everything you could on me in this thread and it seems that you are not satisfied with the outcome. Punishing the player of Jason seems to be your top priority (instead of punishing the character Jason using your char in game). I did a mistake in poor word, but of course, please feel free to take this opportunity to file another case in front of whole game and further humiliate me by writing long posts explaining and magnifying the matter. For your satisfaction, I have already surrendered before you.

"Bro", if it was an honest mistake, there's nothing to fear. You've said you apologize, claim it's a mistake, and are willing to take responsibility. That's good enough for me. All I'd have expected was a warning, and this accomplishes the same effect. There is a collective impetus to clean up the game; this is part of that. It's impossible to moderate IG messages, so a Magistrates case is the current established recourse.

That said, it's also important to recognize the error now as repeated use would indicate a lack of sincerity here.

Of course I'd aim to "punish" (warn) the player of Jason; it's an OOC (that is, player) issue. There were two issues with the letter, completely unrelated in terms of why they were suspect. If only one was considered, it doesn't make the other right; I was trying to be considerate of you by not starting the case when I saw the same letter being used as evidence here. "Top priority" is also incorrect; I continue to play the game as normal. My character has no issue with Jason's IC actions.

If you seriously believe this is about "my satisfaction", I cannot fathom how any further interaction would be productive at all. If the only reason you're apologizing is to make me happy, you've completely missed the point of the entire Magistrates system. If I'm misinterpreting this, I'd gladly retract my words, but you're making it very hard to believe any other explanation.

Elegant

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 It's impossible to moderate IG messages, so a Magistrates case is the current established recourse.

you've completely missed the point of the entire Magistrates system. If I'm misinterpreting this, I'd gladly retract my words, but you're making it very hard to believe any other explanation.

You have missed it, not me.

Magistrates are for disputes. You did not tell me what was wrong in my message at that time, but, you were ready to open a magistrates case against me. If you had pointed out my mistake, I would have explained this and apologized. If I had resisted you in this matter, you could go to magistrates. But, what's the point of going to Magistrates when there was no dispute at all? We could have solved this issue that day itself without bothering Magistrates ! That's why I feel that you wanted to drag me unnecessarily in court.

Geronus

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I think the matter is settled and nothing further needs to be said on it, but I will clarify the issue that Elegant has raised here:

As a matter of policy and preference, Elegant is correct. The Magistrates do ask that players who are offended by anything that another player does contact that player directly first and politely express their feelings prior to opening a Magistrate case. Equally, we expect anyone who is contacted in such a manner to apologize and immediately cease any offensive behavior. We then expect both parties to move on amicably.

In the event that two players cannot resolve their differences in this fashion, a case can be opened and we will rule on it, but please consider us more of a last resort than a first one.

Eirikr

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You have missed it, not me.

Magistrates are for disputes. You did not tell me what was wrong in my message at that time, but, you were ready to open a magistrates case against me. If you had pointed out my mistake, I would have explained this and apologized. If I had resisted you in this matter, you could go to magistrates. But, what's the point of going to Magistrates when there was no dispute at all? We could have solved this issue that day itself without bothering Magistrates ! That's why I feel that you wanted to drag me unnecessarily in court.

I beg to differ; at least one OOC letter was sent about that, to which I do not recall you replying directly. In fact, the only follow-up (which was IC) took a rather unapologetic tone. Seeing as this was not the first time a similar situation had occurred (dubious message tone, not specifically the content), a Magistrates case seemed correct.

I can see your side, however. With all that was going on, I believe the OOC message was more generalized. You could have skipped over it or not realized it was directed at you. I, or someone else, should have been crystal clear and spoke to you directly. For that much, I apologize.

Either way, the point got across; the matter is settled as Geronus said.


I stand by my point, however, that rulings aren't for personal satisfaction, as you had implied. In vastly oversimplified terms, Magistrates aren't there to make people happy, they're there to determine, in a fair manner, whether or not we're all playing nice together, according to the rules.


^ban^

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Funny.

I don't see a single question in any of these posts following the verdict.
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Penchant

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Funny.

I don't see a single question in any of these posts following the verdict.
I'd like to specifically ask whether the specific message from Jason about "Hammargays", etc. was considered. I'd rather not start a second case if it's already been considered and is determined to be resolved, but I also believe it warrants its own attention for a different reason than the original complaint here.

I don't want to seem like we're just trying to throw everything we can at Elegant, but it needs to be clear that such messages are unacceptable.