OOC message to recruit to realm

[Delinquent]

I got this message and it didn't feel right to me.

Out-of-Character from **********   (3 days, 6 hours ago)
Message sent to: Akakios, Albion Manx, Echetlaeus, Jean Jacques, Kero, Sammy, Tailai
Greeting,
If you want to play adventurer game, and if you want join adventurer guild, create your adv at Fronen, Beluaterra. And if you want create another noble, please consider to join Fronen, Beluaterra. War just started there, so its the best time to join now..

About island, Beluaterra is special, you cant create any noble there. So if you want to play at beluaterra, create noble at other island, and after 14 day, you can go to city near the sea/river and emigrate to beluaterra.

If you interested, reply me.
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I posted the message here not to get someone in trouble, but more to establish what is and is not acceptable in recruiting characters. It's the overall attitude to recruiting in the game that bothers me and I'd like to call for a broader discussion.

[egamma]

It's fairly common, and I don't see it violating any rules.

[vonGenf]

It's fairly common, and I don't see it violating any rules.

It's factually wrong though. The best place to join is Riombara!

[Anaris]

Seriously, vonGenf? Can't we have a sincere discussion about this sort of thing without people just blatantly propagandizing in it?

On the forums, I think a certain amount of recruitment and propaganda is fine, especially within the individual continent subforums, and when people specifically ask for good places to play.

Within the game, though, I really don't feel like it's appropriate to send OOC messages attempting to induce people to join specific realms. If you want to recruit IC, and have your character say something like, "My brother in Fronen sends to say they're having a lot of trouble, and could use good warriors," while I don't think it's the best thing in the world to do, it's fully IC, and done for IC reasons.

This sort of OOC recruitment, especially just blatantly saying, "If you want to play an advy, create it in Fronen," full stop, is...I dunno, it just really rubs me the wrong way.

I don't think it's against any sort of rule, but it doesn't really feel to me like it's "playing a game as with friends".

[Indirik]

Personally, I dislike advertising for other realms in-game, either IC or OOC.

[Deytheur]

I hate this kind of thing too, it's partly why I have many times refused to join Thalmarkin or anything Lurian . On IRC you see it all the time. Rulers sending private messages to new people getting them to join their realm with whatever kind of sweet talk or deal making, or even to old people in different realms trying to get them to switch their cities to them.

While it might not be technically against the rules it leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth and leaves people who don't stoop to such levels or don't have time to troll around for new people or don't read the forums/IRC at something of a disadvantage when more nobles comes at such a premium in the game at the moment.

[Atanamir]

I agree here with Anaris to a great extent.

I think the difference on OOC recruiting is the situation the recruited person is in.
Especially since Delinquent/Aragon posts this, there is a good example:

I recruited Delinquent/Aragon on IRC back then when she was new to BM, and brought her to Perdan in order to mentor her to the game and of course also help my realm.
A win-win situation for the player and the realm.
She has was not part of another realm and also needed guidance.
If she was now part of another realm, I would not have done this, as every realm in BM needs the players for itsself.

Now, such random ingame messages to unknown players are troubling I think, because, as Anaris said, it could be solved easily IC.

The fact that we send to experienced players on IRC invitations is natural, everyone has done that, and in the end we always know that an exprienced player decides for himself what to do.
But as far as new players are concerned, I find it not good.

[Bendix]

You would think there would be more rules against meddling with the game OOC. The very fact that people are trying to win wars and improve their realm through non-character actions is in very bad taste, and goes against the entire concept of roleplaying.

It is my opinion that this game should do more to promote roleplaying and less to promote OOC interactions and meta-gaming. It always seems to end badly, and people get disillusioned.

[vonGenf]

Seriously, vonGenf? Can't we have a sincere discussion about this sort of thing without people just blatantly propagandizing in it?

Sorry. Yes, we can have a proper discussion.

I agree with egamma: it's extremely common, and I've never seen it being frowned upon. I've joined realm based on such messages before. At least it tells you that a realm is interested in seeing new people.

The facebook page more or less encourages this sort of thing, in fact.

It's not like the poster is using his position in another realm to further his toals. It's done OOC: "if you are looking for a place to create a new characer, this is a fun one!"

[Geronus]

Officially speaking, it is not against the rules. Some may find it distasteful, but there's nothing wrong with it, at least until players start actually offering bribes to each other.

[Atanamir]

I thnk experienced players ignore or can handle such messages. But this question came from a relative new player.

I think there is also the problem.
I believe that if the mentor class would be reinstated again, this would be, at least as far as new players are concerned, less troubling.

Back then it was much easier to "bind"new players to your char and realm via IC means, now there are just thrown into the cold water and then, well, whoever catches them first (or not at all), unfortunately.

[Bendix]

Officially speaking, it is not against the rules. Some may find it distasteful, but there's nothing wrong with it, at least until players start actually offering bribes to each other.

Actually, I don't think offering a bribe would be officially against the rules either. At least, I can't find anything in the Rules and Policies section that specifically forbids it.

But that's my point: just because there is no rule currently doesn't mean that one shouldn't be crafted. It would be hubris to assume that the system is perfect and therefore beyond the thought of changing.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that OOC recruitment is illegal. I think it is an issue that is just now coming to light (at least for me it is), and we as players should discuss how we feel about it and perhaps come up with suggestions on how to improve the game.

[egamma]

I like to think of this as the "playing with friends" rule. Would a friend say to you, "come play over here, it's fun"? Yes.

[Anaris]

I like to think of this as the "playing with friends" rule. Would a friend say to you, "come play over here, it's fun"? Yes.

I think a lot of the problem is in presentation.

The quote in the OP isn't saying, "Hey, guys, it's a lot of fun in Fronen! You should come, too!"

It's saying, "If you want to create an adventurer, create one in Fronen. If you want to create a noble, create one somewhere else, then emigrate it to Fronen. We just started a war." (The implication being, "So we need more people to help fight it.")

Furthermore, it's an IG OOC message. If it were being sent via some OOG channel, I wouldn't think much of it, but this is more like blatant advertisement being pushed in your face.

Rather than a friend simply saying, "Hey, it's fun over here! You should come be here too!", I would characterize it more as being like a billboard being thrust in your face, or a used-car-salesman-type appearing in front of you and shouting, "Hey everybody! Fronen's the place to be! Everyone should be in Fronen! Fronen: The Fun Place™!"

It smacks of advertisement and artificiality, especially because it's being sent to this broad group of (I believe) adventurers.

[Geronus]

Actually, I don't think offering a bribe would be officially against the rules either. At least, I can't find anything in the Rules and Policies section that specifically forbids it.

But that's my point: just because there is no rule currently doesn't mean that one shouldn't be crafted. It would be hubris to assume that the system is perfect and therefore beyond the thought of changing.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that OOC recruitment is illegal. I think it is an issue that is just now coming to light (at least for me it is), and we as players should discuss how we feel about it and perhaps come up with suggestions on how to improve the game.

When it comes to bribes, I think that falls under the fair play clause.