Author Topic: Ban entire family  (Read 11186 times)

T0mislav

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Ban entire family
« Topic Start: July 16, 2013, 08:36:18 PM »
Is it allowed that Judge state: "From this point forward you and any of your family is hereby banned..."?

Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #1: July 16, 2013, 08:48:45 PM »
It's been done before. Of course you can't actually ban an entire family, but you certainly can ban any members of that family that show up in your realm.

T0mislav

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #2: July 16, 2013, 08:50:07 PM »
Just for showing up? (Without any other reason?)

Draco Tanos

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #3: July 16, 2013, 08:50:46 PM »
Sometimes having a disliked family name sucks.

T0mislav

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #4: July 16, 2013, 09:00:45 PM »
If it is so, can someone explain me how then IR protect players if Judge can ban them simply for dislike (stating simply that he dislikes your family)? - That can always be stated as reason simply to play IR.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 09:02:57 PM by T0mislav »

Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #5: July 16, 2013, 09:03:48 PM »
Just for showing up? (Without any other reason?)

When it comes to bans, there isn't any list of acceptable reasons to ban someone. There is a (very short) list of reasons that it's not acceptable to ban someone, but as long as you stay away from those, you should be fine. They are:

  • Banning someone solely because they have a family member in an enemy realm
  • Banning someone for any IR-related reason (inactivity, going to a tournament, etc.)

That's about it, honestly... As long as there's an IC reason of some sort for it, go for it. The Lefanis family was banned from Riombara for several years for treason, until there was enough character turnover that people forgot about it.

Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #6: July 16, 2013, 09:08:29 PM »
If it is so, can someone explain me how then IR protect players if Judge can ban them simply for dislike (stating simply that he dislikes your family)? - That can always be stated as reason simply to play IR.

No, that's a valid reason, as long as it all stays in-character. He's the judge; he can ban anyone he wants to, for any reason (again, subject to those very few restrictions I mentioned). If the banned character doesn't like it, he can always try to get the rest of the realm to support his cause and protest the judge out of office, but if the judge is that hostile to you you're probably better off just heading for greener pastures somewhere else. You do not have an Inalienable Right right to play in any realm you want; otherwise there would be no such thing as a ban.

T0mislav

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #7: July 16, 2013, 09:19:46 PM »
Hmm... and what about Government Rules:
Quote
Be open to criticism and never believe you know everything
    This goes especially for people using the Protest option. It is there for a reason, you know?
    The other aspect is that of unit settings, designations, battle strategy, etc. While you may want everyone set on defensive, remember that there are unit slants. A player may have a good reason to not set his unit the way you prefer. Check if he knows something you don't. Of course, he may just be stupid, but err on the side of caution.

And then I got ban for:
"for causing trouble by being an open critic and insulting the nobles"

My charracter never used any insultive word - by "insulting nobles" he refere on:
- My charracter publicaly warned King and General that they are doing premature attack
- After the attack failed they started blaiming players for not moving threatening some (what is violation of IR) and when my charracter pointed that they are responsible for failure they tuck it as "insulting nobles" and baned my charracter and his entire family from the realm
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 09:33:42 PM by T0mislav »

Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #8: July 16, 2013, 09:41:15 PM »
Hmm... and what about Government Rules:
And then I got ban for:
"for causing trouble by being an open critic and insulting the nobles"

My charracter never used any insultive word - by "insulting nobles" he refere on:
- My charracter publicaly warned King and General that they are doing premature attack
- After the attack failed they started blaiming players for not moving threatening some (what is violation of IR) and when my charracter pointed that they are responsible for failure they tuck it as "insulting nobles" and baned my charracter and his entire family from the realm

I don't see anything wrong with that on the face of it. It may be unjust, but that's not against the rules. In fact, we expect Kings and Judges to abuse their power on occasion. They're not completely unaccountable, after all. If they abuse their power too deeply and alienate their nobility, they can be protested out of office or even give rise to a rebellion.

Now, if they start handing out punishments to people for not moving, well, that might infringe on the activity IR, but it sounds like everything they've done so far is fine.

My advice to you is to move on. It sounds like the characters running your realm aren't particularly pleasant, so why not give your character's loyalty to someone more worthy of it? Perhaps the realm you were fighting against would prove more worthy of your devotion, and of course you could get a measure of revenge that way. Indeed, maybe you should encourage others in your former realm to cross the lines.

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #9: July 16, 2013, 09:46:46 PM »
Though thats also risky since if you're captured in battle, you could be executed as a formerly banned noble. Of course, if you don't have the death fame point yet, it could be an opportunity to gain it, as well.

T0mislav

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #10: July 16, 2013, 09:49:47 PM »
I also OOC refered on IR #1 when pointing nobles for not moving started:
Quote
Everyone can play this game according to his personal rhythm, and if you can't deal with that then step down.

And player of King OOC stated:
Quote
... and OOC besmirching  and reference to "stepping down" is out of line and an obvious ploy to seed malcontent due no doubt to the removal of his other character....not gonna float that boat around here my friend....happy trails : )

(first part was about my charracter's ingame critics...)

So, actually ban of my charracter have also OOC reason...
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 09:53:34 PM by T0mislav »

Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #11: July 16, 2013, 10:10:00 PM »
The activity IR only comes into play if they start punishing characters for failing to move in time. Your character was evidently punished for other reasons. If the judge fines or bans anyone for not moving, then those players will have a case to make that their IRs were violated.

Again, perhaps your ban was unjust from an IC standpoint, but it does not technically violate any rules. From what I read here however, you're probably better off not being in that realm. Doesn't sound like you were getting along with the leadership.

Tom

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #12: July 17, 2013, 12:18:59 AM »
If it is so, can someone explain me how then IR protect players if Judge can ban them simply for dislike

There is no IR to play in a realm you want to play in, or to be liked, or not to be banned.

If we figure out a judge is banning for inactivity and simply writing down other reasons, you can be sure we'll come down on him so hard, he will feel very, very sorry for lying to us. The FAQ specifically states that we reserve the harshest punishments for those who prove willful intent and knowledge that their actions were not ok by going to elaborate lengths to cover them up.

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #13: July 17, 2013, 01:18:10 AM »
The FAQ specifically states that we reserve the harshest punishments for those who prove willful intent and knowledge that their actions were not ok by going to elaborate lengths to cover them up.

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Life in Night that they walk; Gods, heretics, thieves, and murderers.
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Geronus

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Re: Ban entire family
« Reply #14: July 17, 2013, 01:25:06 AM »
Bahahaha, I would like that if I could.

A case has been opened by T0mislav:

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php?action=post;topic=4891.0;last_msg=113976