Closing Islands ?

[Tom]

We've had this topic here and there, but I'd like to open up an honest and serious discussion about this.

This is not about WHICH island to close, but about whether or not to do it at all.


In case you have been living under a rock the past years: BM is falling apart because it was designed with a specific player density in mind. A higher density we always countered by creating new game worlds. But a lower density, as we have now, is not so easily fixed.

One solution would be the inverse - reducing the number of islands. That also means a loss of a lot of history, character achievements, realms with their culture and so on and so forth.

The questions in my mind are:

• Would the player community be open to a step like this AT ALL ?
• Can we, together, find ways to make it bearable?

I have a couple ideas on 2. For example, we could bring two game worlds together and allow people from the one to be sunk to migrate to the other one slowly and as whole realms, allowing them to war the existing realms there and maybe (if they win) create a smaller version of their realm in their lands. That way, the realm would have moved, but it would retain its identity.
That is just an example to show that I and the rest of the dev team understand that just removing an island from the game would upset many people, so even if we need to do it, we would have to think about how to do it.


And this is where the community can help us figuring out if this is acceptable at all and if so, how to go about it.


What this should not be is a topic to defend your favorite island. Please do NOT discuss which island to sink in this topic, it would only result in a flamewar where everyone tries to save his island by arguing for some other one.

[Stabbity]

If an island does go out, it should go out with a bang. I know you've said the invasions are done with in their old form, but I think this would be an interesting way for an island to go (and would be happy to contribute, if needed) rather than just getting a message "hey, lol, your island sank." If we close an island, it should have a meaningful (but inevitable) end.

[Tiridia]

Yes. Though, as you said, sinking is bad. Merging is better. This is fantasy world, so it could happen. Then clip off the edges, forcing inland migration and strife. And do it really slowly.

Even better would be an automated way of granting and removing access to regions based on player population variations.

You could combine two or three maps and just have sea regions connecting them.

[sharkattack]

Why not if possible combine some of the worlds and make huge continent. That way no one will loose their realms and histories but have even more players playing with them from merged worlds and open up more possibilities.

[Chenier]

I think any continent removal is bound to drive off players that felt attached to that particular continent and no other, and would thus only accelerate the decline of the player base.

However, continental mergers may be part of the solution, or maybe a solution to other problems at least. Now that we have sea travel, if we merge continents in the sense of having multiple land masses remain intact but become reachable from each other (like Dwilight's two subcontinents), where nobles can freely sail from one part to the other, it'd become easier for realms to find something to do (nothing good to do close to home? All neighbors are superpowers? Let's raid farther away!) and for religions to gain a critical mass needed to become of some importance. In short, a complete overhaul of how continents work. Of course, tweaks would need to be made so that mercenary settings truly allows fighting really far from home, and colony takeovers would need to be brought back.

It may not help the ratio of characters per total land, but if blocs from one continent start trying to destroy blocs from others, they'll likely end up destroying realms and driving a lot of stuff rogue, thus increasing the noble per owned region ratio.

[Jaden]

I would think a pure continental merge would not solve the problem of player density, there is simply too many regions with the amount of players that we have.. i think that maybe the islands should be cut down to size before merging them together, so like blighting regions and/or merging regions together to reduce the number the regions so that the estate system actually works.

[Velax]

Before we talk about sinking islands, is there nothing that can be done to increase player density? Is BM doomed to shrink and shrink until it's dead?

[Anaris]

Before we talk about sinking islands, is there nothing that can be done to increase player density? Is BM doomed to shrink and shrink until it's dead?

No, but the density is a problem now that doubtless contributes to the shrinkage itself.

Like I was saying on IRC the other day, when the patient is bleeding out, you don't worry about his smoking habit.

I'm working hard on improving the game so that people will want to stick around more, but a) I'm only one person, and b) that sort of effort, even if it's perfectly directed, will take months for the game to even begin to feel the effects.

[vonGenf]

blighting regions and/or merging regions together to reduce the number the regions so that the estate system actually works.

Is region merging doable? Could we imagine, for example, to redraw the maps to have 20% less rural regions while keeping the overall realm shapes/strength?

With the new food production algorithm, food production would automatically remain in equilibrium.

[Scarlett]

FEI is small enough that it could be merged. I always felt bad for the players at the North and South extremes anyway.

I just don't know that any other islands are of an appropriate size to merge with it. They're all much larger, right?

[Ender]

While the idea of forcing a continent wide move to another continent to spark colonization wars sounds interesting, it also sounds like it'd dump a lot of current players who would be fed up with the idea of having to fight to start something they currently have or would leave if they failed to restart their realm. I think it'd be fun, but that's just how it is and it still sinks a continent which is bound to scare some people off.

If the main problem is player density when compared to the number of regions, Jaron sounds like he has something there. If you simply cut down on the available regions by making them impossible to live in, then the current player base would be forced to readjust their borders. How you'd accomplish this, I can't say, but doing it with something temporary (Blight, sudden flooding of coastal regions that makes them uninhabitable, volcanic eruption that claims regions, but keeps them around) you can reopen them if player density increases (players suddenly have a way to clear the blight, the ocean starts receding, or the lava cools down leaving open territory once more).

This wouldn't necessarily work with every continent, perhaps, but it would work on enough I'd think to cut down the size a bit without sinking islands.

[Atanamir]

The easiest solution would to work with what you have, without making cuts on the continents' but increases on the players' side.
It will hurt players to see continents merged,drown etc, but it won't hurt them to be able to play more.
The solution would be to allow everyone to have on every continent at least 1 character, on 2 continents should even 2 be allowed.
For donations 2 chars on 3 continents, so one extra char.

That means for example 2 on EC, 2 on AT, and then one each of the other islands.
If you have made a donation, you can have 2 chars on one further continent as well.

Also, the current system with only 2 (Nobles) + 1 (Advy) till 5 fame is stopping a lot of new players in their gaming ability.
At least those new ones I know, will need forever till they get those 5 fame and get a third noble.
This fame rule should be deleted again.

[LilWolf]

For example, we could bring two game worlds together and allow people from the one to be sunk to migrate to the other one slowly and as whole realms, allowing them to war the existing realms there and maybe (if they win) create a smaller version of their realm in their lands. That way, the realm would have moved, but it would retain its identity.

Disrupting the gameplay of two islands doesn't sound like it would go over too well either. If an island is to be sunken then the effects of that should be directed solely at that island.

With the last invasion of Beluaterra there was a perfect opportunity to shut down the island in a way that players could have accepted -- the Overlord winning and the entire island becoming Netherworld stomping grounds. If you want to close an island that's the way to do it. Leave players that "we may have been defeated now, but some day we'll return and take back what's ours."

Edit:
Or alternatively, the effect should be felt on all the islands. That way you can build a story that involves the entire playerbase while keeping some mystery around which island will be going away. You could have some mystery navies appearing on all islands, landing troops, starting take overs. Everyone would have to fight and take part because it just might be their island that gets completely taken over.

[Jaden]

"we may have been defeated now, but some day we'll return and take back what's ours."

this is a very important point, i think the chosen island could be closed without sinking it completely and with the possibility in the future of reopening the island

[Sacha]

Instead of removing one island, would it be an option to 'reset' it, i.e. create 4 or 5 starter realms and leave the rest of the island as rogue lands to be conquered, as it was with the opening of Dwilight?