Closing Islands ?

[vonGenf]

Those statistics are nearly two years old now. What was true then is not necessarily the case now.

True enough, that's when the study was made. The original posts only mentions percentages - I wonder if Vellos still has his spreadsheet around?

[Wolfang]

Let's close the island with the largest number of retained unique players to save the islands that have less unique players and where 2 chars per person are allowed.
Obviously, an effect on Dwilight would be more or less limited if another island was closed, since almost everyone wants to play there.

[Anaris]

I firmly believe that we can improve the situation on Dwilight somewhat by increasing the rogue spawn rate again.

Yes, this will create areas where realms are separated by spans of rogue regions. However, I think that because of sea routes, and the much more global nature of Dwilight politics in more recent times, this will not cripple the ability to have interesting close-fought wars.

[Jimgerdes]

As far as losing history and culture etc. being a concern, and Dwilight being brought up.

Compared to the other islands, you would lose less from closing Dwilight than the other islands.  Dwi has only been around for a couple years, compared to some of the others which have been around upwards of 10 years.

Dwilight is unique in this case because it was released long after any of the other islands.

I would rather we not close an island, but it's another factor to consider.

[Tom]

So closing Dwilight, while it would improve the density of other islands, would lose some of the uniqueness that helps keep more people in the game.

There is nothing unique about Dwilight the game-map. What culture, religions and other player-generated content it has brought forth can be transported to other islands.

[Gustav Kuriga]

As far as losing history and culture etc. being a concern, and Dwilight being brought up.

Compared to the other islands, you would lose less from closing Dwilight than the other islands.  Dwi has only been around for a couple years, compared to some of the others which have been around upwards of 10 years.

Dwilight is unique in this case because it was released long after any of the other islands.

I would rather we not close an island, but it's another factor to consider.

Unfortunately, this doesn't take into account the fact that all of the newer players (such as myself) came after Dwilight was created, and know nothing but Dwilight-era Battlemaster. Shutting down Dwilight would basically be closing down my only fun character. The newer players are the people we are trying to retain, since the older players have stayed with Battlemaster through various huge changes (like the sinking of the War Islands), and so would be more likely to bear through it.

[Geronus]

There is nothing unique about Dwilight the game-map. What culture, religions and other player-generated content it has brought forth can be transported to other islands.

Possibly, but I do think that your idea will be difficult to implement, and that much will be lost in the transition. The residents of the target islands are unlikely to take kindly to a group of strange nobles showing up and wanting to re-found their realms which will make things more difficult for them, and it won't be possible to recreate some of the geographic considerations that led to cultures like Luria being sustainable. There's also character limits, which will almost certainly cause the Dwilight realms to lose nobles depending on their ultimate destination, and that's on top of the attrition I would expect to come from closing the island in the first place.

[Foxglove]

All of those problems apply pretty much equally to any island. They're not unique to Dwilight.

The residents of the target islands are unlikely to take kindly to a group of strange nobles showing up and wanting to re-found their realms which will make things more difficult for them

Same for every island.

it won't be possible to recreate some of the geographic considerations that led to cultures like Luria being sustainable.

Same for Coralynth or Obisidian Islands, etc.

There's also character limits, which will almost certainly cause the Dwilight realms to lose nobles depending on their ultimate destination

That will pretty much happen with any islands that will close, and it will be a major headache to organize. But, judging by what Tom said yesterday, it'll be up to internal discussion in the migrating realms to decide on a target island that suits as many people as possible.

[Penchant]

I can come up with countless reasons both the cultures and religions of Dwilight will be unable to be successful transported to other islands. SA, the most notable religion in the game can not be refounded anywhere else because the reason it was able to be successful is due to being founded on the "final frontier" with no close rival religions and a large drive by the players to make it work. The religions of Dwlight that are still around have all been affected by SA. Triunism is considered a variant of SA, and they are pretty much all located in the Occiddens. Dwilight is AFAIK, the only continent where geographical things like Toprak and Marrociddens are commonly used by many players which won't be transported because Dwilight has a geographical nature unlike any other island.

 The giant hole in the map is a huge reason Dwilight is how it is even though it might not be obvious. D'hara without the inter-seas is not D'hara. The moot was formed due to geographical positioning making them common allies against the rogues. Luria has a special geography that isolates itself from its enemies so that it becomes difficult to attack them. (Although sea zones has changed it some.) Aurvandil was able to be continue to win wars due to its special geographical location. (The multi's made it so the moot couldn't win but it was its geographical location preventing the rest the island from attacking and a location unique to only Dwilight.) Asylon was able to be the way it was, once more, due to geographical reasons special only to Dwilight. The Zuma was on one end, basically an invincible wall since no armies dare march through the Zuma and the special width of the Occiddens making it difficult for any realm to stretch from the inner-seas to the outer seas, thus Asylon was able to grow upwards. Niselur is unique due to its mountain ranges creating a defensible, semi-isolated area with plenty of food to support it self in its isolation. These are a number of reasons that the cultures and religions of Dwilight will not be able to be transported over to other continents with any real success.

[Penchant]

All of those problems apply pretty much equally to any island. They're not unique to Dwilight.

Same for every island.

Same for Coralynth or Obisidian Islands, etc.

That will pretty much happen with any islands that will close, and it will be a major headache to organize. But, judging by what Tom said yesterday, it'll be up to internal discussion in the migrating realms to decide on a target island that suits as many people as possible.

While the geographical uniqueness applies to Coralynth or OI, I have listed reasons above showing it applies to most of the island and I can likely find even more reasons why Dwilight's unique geography is a huge part of what makes the continent unique. And the character restriction is a bigger problem with Dwilight because there are more players there than any island making it harder to work as there are a lot of players on Dwi.

[Gustav Kuriga]

There is nothing unique about Dwilight the game-map. What culture, religions and other player-generated content it has brought forth can be transported to other islands.

Oh... nothing unique at all. Only the most successful religion ever formed, one of the best retention rates of any island, the east-west divide that creates a huge change in political considerations. A place where even a centrally placed realm cannot completely press its might upon the rest of the continent (looking at Atamara). Home to the Dwilight University, where much of the history of the island has been recorded.

[Foxglove]

While the geographical uniqueness applies to Coralynth or OI, I have listed reasons above showing it applies to most of the island and I can likely find even more reasons why Dwilight's unique geography is a huge part of what makes the continent unique. And the character restriction is a bigger problem with Dwilight because there are more players there than any island making it harder to work as there are a lot of players on Dwi.

I see where you're coming from, but I still think the unique geographical argument applies to most islands. For example, would Sirion be Sirion if it hadn't have had the geography that it has? Your point about Dwilight's main religion is well taken, and the challenges with transplanting religions is something I've raised myself a couple of times.

The character limits are going to be tricky for any island. How is the reverse going to work out if realms from another island try to resettle in Dwilight with its one character limit? That seems like any realm that tried to relocate there would lose a good proportion of its characters, or people would have to pause their existing character on Dwilight to keep playing their character/s from the invading island.

Or are we saying Dwilight should just remain untouched by all these events and no realms from the closing island should try to settle there?

[Vita`]

Let's try to stay calm in the delicate waters of island loss.

I very much believe the retention study should be redone and that, in consideration of Dwilight's one noble per player rule, a player density of the islands included with the character density.

[Meneldur]

Let's try to stay calm in the delicate waters of island loss.

I very much believe the retention study should be redone and that, in consideration of Dwilight's one noble per player rule, a player density of the islands included with the character density.

^This. I imagine that if player density rather than character density were measured, Dwilight would rank considerably higher.

[Kwanstein]

Dwilight is unique precisely because it's new(er).

When a new map is started, everything is up in the air. There is a power vacuum that realms scramble to fill, which was what caused that epic war on East Island so long ago. The culture is a blank slate, allowing prolific players to leave their marks. New maps are more interesting to play on, so they have more player activity, better retention and more player recruitment.

When new maps get old and their number of realms shrivel up and the culture becomes set and unyielding, the interaction becomes redundant and they bleed players profusely. East Continent and Atamara both went through this phase of drying up and now it seems as though all of the active players there are gone. You can spend months in one of the big realms in those places and never see any message, unless it's at war in which case you will see the daily scout reports and orders.

Dwilight is probably (haven't played FEI yet) the last bastion of meaningful interaction, and it's because it's a young island. History, so what. What do I care about history beyond background dressing, when it's what's happening at present that makes playing enjoyable.

But at this point the game is on an inexorable death march. Action wasn't taken quickly enough and the bleed out already happened several years ago. Closing islands is too little too late to change anything, and it's especially ineffective when it's undertaken with such blindness that the best island is the first to go.