Author Topic: Punishments in cases of harassment  (Read 5607 times)

Anaris

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #15: July 29, 2013, 10:34:27 PM »
Personal attacks, particularly against the victim of the recent harassment, will not be tolerated. Such posts will be removed from the thread, and their posters will receive official warnings.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Wolfang

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #16: July 29, 2013, 10:43:34 PM »
Interesting... For how long? And should the affected player get the character slot back to use somewhere else (or even to remake a new character in the same realm)?
Idk, that'd depends on the severity of the infraction, up to the magistrates to decide. I think you can get quite creative with this.

Geronus

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #17: July 29, 2013, 10:57:37 PM »
Idk, that'd depends on the severity of the infraction, up to the magistrates to decide. I think you can get quite creative with this.

Pausing would remove them from their positions, cause their units to disband, and (I think) cause their bonds to be redistributed. I do not recall what would happen to their gold on hand. We'd have to consider these effects if we were to use this option.

We could set it up like a vacation pause that expires within a set limit. Sort of like locking an account I suppose, but only one character. The only thing is, I'm having trouble envisioning when we might use this.

Tom

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #18: July 30, 2013, 12:19:16 AM »
Everyone is too focussed on punishment for my taste.

The purpose of Titan and Magistrate actions is not punishment. Their purpose is to guard a friendly in-game atmosphere. If 3 days of locking don't do that, neither will 5 or 10. It's not about hurting someone as much as possible, or "adequately much", it's about sending them a message.



Sacha

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #19: July 30, 2013, 12:55:25 AM »
And everyone else too, for that matter.

Miriam Ics

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #20: July 30, 2013, 02:48:52 AM »
My point is that I'm not sure if the message was sent, in this case or in other cases. Not sure if the judgement will avoid what started the harassment to happen again.

Harassment begins for one reason, to get something in general. In two cases I have followed here, it seems to me that those who were punished more were precisely those who were persecuted because the punishment for the defendants, who were harassing, were not enough to prevent them to get what they seemed to want IC.

Note that I say "seemed".

In the case of the players with multi-account, the account deletion will refrain them to make it again, because they know exactly what will happen.

In cases of harassment, way more difficult to analyze and judge, will the consequences avoid anyone to do the same again? Or will they think that having their account locked for 4 days Is worthy to do it?

Jaune, I am not persecuting anyone but I am really worried about this.
Two players left the game "allegedly" because of the harassment. For me this is a reason good enough to discuss deeper about the matter.
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Geronus

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #21: July 30, 2013, 02:54:02 AM »
In the case of the players with multi-account, the account deletion will refrain them to make it again, because they know exactly what will happen.

That's... Not necessarily true. I know of one offender who was caught at least three times that I am aware of.

Miriam Ics

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #22: July 30, 2013, 02:58:37 AM »
That's... Not necessarily true. I know of one offender who was caught at least three times that I am aware of.

Well, this might be the "Exception that proves the rule" :)

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."

Anaris

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #23: July 30, 2013, 03:09:46 AM »
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Geronus

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #24: July 30, 2013, 05:41:41 AM »

nanakisan

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #25: July 30, 2013, 05:52:41 AM »
The issue here is. A player competitive nature forced him to make brash accusations on two other players. His handy work forced them to essentially forget what was fun about this game and leave.

I am a former admin to once large sci-fi RP communities forum. There were many thing s of incredible intrigue. Many things happen but all the players followed a strict code of conduct. The code was simple, don't be a jerk and mix OOC with IC situations. A I was forced to close a lot of RP's that went to far out of the realm of allowance in certain RP themes. Many people got angry at me for these decisions but i didn't make them alone. I had a team (much like how the magistrates and titans are here). We handled things as they came along. However the most common issue of anything is the competitive nature of people. So to take them down a notch my team and the community leaders involved with specific RP forums edited posts. We basically altered te players history as punishment making them lose titles and ranks they worked hard for. This left a incredible impression on them and made them rethink their goals. It told them that this is only a game and that there is punishment if they stepped out of line.

When someones behavior is so extreme to the point that its driving people away. I would perma ban their buns in a heartbeat to preserve the community i tried to keep happy and healthy. Leaving them alone or just swiftly kicking them in the groin with a minimal punishment just wasn't enough for some people and they were easily caught doing it again.

The same applies here. The situation Geronus talks about is if the administrative volunteer task force IE the Magistrates did a good enough job with the situation. I agree given the parameters they were set forth by the developers and Tom himself they did a decent enough job. However while i agreee a harsher punishment should have been considered. We need to keep in mind that Jason did in fact instigate the investigation into these matters after he decided to leave. By technicality Atanamir is only guilty of creating a foul enviroment but wasn't fully responsible for Jasons leaving. So with that in mind the punishment would have to be suitable for someone who likes the game. Something that sends a message and i believe the message was sent. However "IF" the player of atanamir managed to get the ruler position back and start this madness again. Then by that time i would feel he is beyond redemption and remorse and should suffer the greatest penalty there is.
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Geronus

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #26: July 30, 2013, 06:03:05 AM »
"Players of good faith" are not likely to be repeat offenders, and I expect that to include 99% of the players of this game. Repeat offenders who demonstrate bad faith can expect harsher measures to be taken in future cases.

Tom

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #27: July 30, 2013, 10:35:23 AM »
My point is that I'm not sure if the message was sent, in this case or in other cases. Not sure if the judgement will avoid what started the harassment to happen again.

If it happens again, there will be another 3-day-lock. In general, our history is quite good, we have very few repeat offenders. Your opinion on the individual case may differ, but in general, the system works well.

Anaris

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #28: July 30, 2013, 01:10:43 PM »
If it happens again, there will be another 3-day-lock. In general, our history is quite good, we have very few repeat offenders. Your opinion on the individual case may differ, but in general, the system works well.

Tom, I'm afraid that seriously misses the point.

If the message was not clearly conveyed here, "another 3-day lock" will not convey it if it happens again.

And remember what would be meant by "it happening again": Atanamir harassing the player of the ruler of an enemy realm to the point where he leaves the game.

So if it happens again, what you're saying is that another decent player would have left the game permanently...and the person responsible for creating such a toxic environment that at least two people left BattleMaster because of it gets a grand total of six days where he can't play the game.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Tom

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Re: Punishments in cases of harassment
« Reply #29: July 30, 2013, 01:46:29 PM »
And remember what would be meant by "it happening again": Atanamir harassing the player of the ruler of an enemy realm to the point where he leaves the game.

No, that's not what it means. Please DO report this guy again as soon as he starts. I do take a dim view on repeat offenders, but right now, thinking that he message might not have come through is not enough. I don't believe in calling people guilty just because they did something in the past.