Author Topic: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster  (Read 132098 times)

Gustav Kuriga

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Exactly. We need those back, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they died down when the forum opened.

I want to make sure that everyone has read the sticky note. I plan to make the locals boards redirect to the newspapers section on the wiki afterwards.

They died off WELL before the forum opened up. As I have said repeatedly, you are getting a lot of confirmation bias in this thread, just using those posts that agree with you to confirm your view without looking at the evidence in general.

Chenier

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They died off WELL before the forum opened up. As I have said repeatedly, you are getting a lot of confirmation bias in this thread, just using those posts that agree with you to confirm your view without looking at the evidence in general.

Indeed. And one has to wonder how many readers they actually got.
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Indirik

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Back in the days of the Newspaper Wars on EC, I think most of the page views we got were from our own writers reading each others' stories, and then from us writing and revising our own.

It was fun for a while. I really enjoyed creating and writing for the three I did. But it eventually got to be more of a chore than fun. Now... meh. I don't think writing a realm paper would be of any interest to me at all. Maybe an island-wide one, where people from many realms contributed would be interesting. But I would be sad to see it turn into a tit-for-tat propaganda rag. Which is what I see it quickly becoming.
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Geronus

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This mirrors many of my own thoughts. The game should be the core of the game, not people feeling their interest in the game is being lessened by not being able to post to sections of the forum. If you want to know what's happening in the south of an island, and you're in the north, pressure your ruler or ambassadors to keep you updated. Or, even better, make contact with nobles in the realms you want to know about and ask them, increasing in-game communication. Join and promote guilds or religions as mediums to hear or share more news IC.

Having a fog of war in terms of information isn't a bad thing for the game. I also think that many people who use the forums just don't realize that the majority of players in the game hardly ever (or never) visit here. Shunting more communication and interaction into the game is positive, and will help with player retention.

You're assuming that the forum is taking away from effort people would otherwise put into the game. There's no particular reason to believe that this is, in fact, the case. Nor is there any reason to believe that shutting down pieces of the forum will magically increase activity levels in the game itself.

de Aquitane

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I quite enjoyed the wild speculations of local forums; the "Thalmarkin will totally crush Melhed because vikings and I play in BoM". The problematic part comes when facts are distinguishable, and players recieve information of things they should not, affecting character play. Some people will heed a course of destruction even if they hear from an outside source their risk will not pay off, some will not. It is definately hard not to let such affect your decision making even though our characters are just, well, characters.

I am unsure if a gentlemen's agreement to avoid posting about your own realm, or things you know about, would work, or if the local channel would even make sense with such a restriction. I would, however, like for there to be a place where I can keep guessing on how much money Darka actually has, and recieve an echo of "oh my god it is still totally !@#$tons fo sho".

I post here quite scarceley (0.04/day), and as such have not been involved (to my knowing) in any of the "negative atmosphere" of the forums. I am guessing much of it is just a few competitive people enjoying arguing and using some less empathic methods of sarcasm and such to prove a point without any real personal malice (or belief in being correct). I am undecided on if this is an issue, but I doubt it will be restricted to locals, as I doubt it really spawns from any OOC/IC mix up. Neither do I think it often reveals crucial information.

Daycryn

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Indeed. And one has to wonder how many readers they actually got.

One can make an educated guess. Abington First was according to the page accessed over 3000 times. The individual articles seem to range from about 500 to 1000 hits each. IIRC a lot of people from different realms would read it, even though it was explicitly a single realm rag, because it stirred controversy and spread all kinds of juicy slander and gossip and propaganda. All entirely in-character. I know it stirred roleplays and had a hand in the politics of the realm in question too.

Just one newspaper, that. Albeit a masterpiece created by a veritable genius, of course. *cough*
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Foxglove

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You're assuming that the forum is taking away from effort people would otherwise put into the game. There's no particular reason to believe that this is, in fact, the case. Nor is there any reason to believe that shutting down pieces of the forum will magically increase activity levels in the game itself.

Well, I've seen times when events are being discussed IC in-game, and when I've looked in on the Locals in the forum I've seen the players of characters who've been completely silent in-game have posted something about those same events on the forum. To be totally fair, that hasn't happened many times but I have been left wondering why comment on it in the Locals when you've been silent in-game?

But simple activity level isn't entirely what I meant. Part of the thing with the Locals is that they reduce the need to interact IC to find information.

Tom

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But I would be sad to see it turn into a tit-for-tat propaganda rag. Which is what I see it quickly becoming.

If it is in-game propaganda, that would be perfectly fine with me. ;-)

Tom

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They died off WELL before the forum opened up.

You and I have different perceptions. I know a couple newspapers that had issues until 2011 - and the forums opened in 2011. You can look these things up, you know?

jaune

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Even thought many of newspapers fade away before forums show up... forums showed up that those are needed and wanted.

I guess problem is to find good reporters :)

I wouldnt mind to have even council position... or somesort of automagic page created to realms where ruler and/or someone who ruler appoints to head diplomat or minister of propaganda have access.

"Official truth of Keplerstan" page on wiki, or even in game.

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Chenier

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One can make an educated guess. Abington First was according to the page accessed over 3000 times. The individual articles seem to range from about 500 to 1000 hits each. IIRC a lot of people from different realms would read it, even though it was explicitly a single realm rag, because it stirred controversy and spread all kinds of juicy slander and gossip and propaganda. All entirely in-character. I know it stirred roleplays and had a hand in the politics of the realm in question too.

Just one newspaper, that. Albeit a masterpiece created by a veritable genius, of course. *cough*

That was 2006-2007, though.
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egamma

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(Yes, I'm way behind. I'll make all my commends in one post.)

At the same time, the local forums have definitely influenced me IC. I hate D'Harans because of the forums and like Niselur. My feelings have definetly changed towards individual players too (though this is more from IRC than anyrthing else)

This is exactly why the locals needed to go. Your character has no IC reason for hating D'Hara, but it sounds like you play your character that way anyways. That sort of opinion should be developed IC.

=======

Quote from: Vita
On the matter of Magistrate publicity, I think the process of the decision should be private, but the initial complaint and the verdict public.

You mean, exactly the way it is set up right now? The Magistrates do have a private forum where they discuss cases.

I would like to see Magistrates not commenting on a case in the public forum, other than asking for information and posting the verict. I see way too many Magistrates posting their opinions in the public forum, that should be in the private side of things. It's unprofessional, for lack of a better word, and detrimental to the system.

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Also, I put the RP forum on ignore, out of a lack of personal interest. But we've never had to moderate any of the posts, so I don't think the RP forum is doing much to damage the game.

Perhaps a rule that people have to RP the event in-game, and not simply on the forums, would be appropriate. Make it a place to copy role-plays for posterity.

=====

Closing down locals is stupid, one of the reasons I decided to play this game was because of the interesting talks and politicking I read reading the Dwilight local. Now I will have absolutely nooooo idea what is going on with the war in the north, or pretty much anywhere at all except in my own realm. This is a pretty dissapointing move and will probably have a negative impact on player attraction and retention.

You can now send your character to the north to gather that information first hand. Again, an example of OOC information reducing the lack of IC motivation to act.

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IRC: no opinion.

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Wiki: it's hard to use (although I've done plenty of pages and edits). Newspapers in particular represent a fair amount of work. It would be nice if there was an easier way to do a newspaper. I know Indirik started working on something with the Tattlemaster but never got it finished. I miss the Tattlemaster.

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Well, I've seen times when events are being discussed IC in-game, and when I've looked in on the Locals in the forum I've seen the players of characters who've been completely silent in-game have posted something about those same events on the forum. To be totally fair, that hasn't happened many times but I have been left wondering why comment on it in the Locals when you've been silent in-game?

But simple activity level isn't entirely what I meant. Part of the thing with the Locals is that they reduce the need to interact IC to find information.

Agree completely. Characters should find out information first, not players.

Eirikr

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Also, I put the RP forum on ignore, out of a lack of personal interest. But we've never had to moderate any of the posts, so I don't think the RP forum is doing much to damage the game.

Perhaps a rule that people have to RP the event in-game, and not simply on the forums, would be appropriate. Make it a place to copy role-plays for posterity.

I'm also severely late to the topic and have little to add, but I do want to say we should encourage the RP aspect as much as possible; it gives more flavor to the game. The RP forum, to me, is a good place for the longer stories that are just unwieldy in-game. Make it a requirement to post a short summary in-game and a link if you must, but I don't think we should stifle the large-scale creative efforts.

That said, I do not frequent the RP forum myself and have no bearing on whether or not people would accept this or even agree with this rationale.

Dishman

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Closing down locals is stupid, one of the reasons I decided to play this game was because of the interesting talks and politicking I read reading the Dwilight local. Now I will have absolutely nooooo idea what is going on with the war in the north, or pretty much anywhere at all except in my own realm. This is a pretty dissapointing move and will probably have a negative impact on player attraction and retention.

Dwilight is one of the easier places to keep abreast of ongoings. SA airs dirty laundry fairly often, plenty of guilds to connect realms, and low noble count means vagabonds are warmly welcomed. Find a few good contacts in each realm and you'll know exactly whats going on. Have a character go on 'holiday' to talk to new people; or do what I had Enoch do, wander the theocracies in their time of need.

I did like how the forum you would get bits and pieces of lore/news/politics....but the newspapers/wiki have just as much information. I'd honestly like to see the newspapers be reborn in the forum.
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Tom

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Wiki: it's hard to use (although I've done plenty of pages and edits). Newspapers in particular represent a fair amount of work. It would be nice if there was an easier way to do a newspaper. I know Indirik started working on something with the Tattlemaster but never got it finished. I miss the Tattlemaster.

If someone finds me something that makes Newspapers easy to do, I'll be more then happy to install it. Something like Wordpress might work, but it needs to allow sub-sites with their own owners, and it needs to be a LOT simpler. I doubt it exists, and while I'd love to create it, I don't think I have the time right now.