Author Topic: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster  (Read 132073 times)

jaune

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I think the problem is partly exactly that its public, one silly message can nullify outstanding plan... cause everybody gets to know about it too early.

I'm sure if people want to discuss "secret" things OOCly, they wont do it at forums anyway.
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Kwanstein

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I completely disagree! No map is finished... Look at how much Atamara has changed. Dont forget that Coria was/is in the CE block too. So not only the north has changed. Sooner or later there will be more changes. And we as players are the only people that should make the changes happen.

As soon as game features/GMs interfere more with the game, I will quit this game. I already see some of the features limiting the game. Make a new island (war islands) if you want resets. But resetting a place where I have built fictional history for 7 years makes sure that I have no ties and can quit without hesitation.

But that all is off topic. The topic was about forums. Delete it and some other place will fill the void and the circle is even smaller than it is now. OOC communication and discussion will not end. Atleast the forum is public and people have to consider their thoughts a bit more than in IM conversations.

Most players stick around for 0-3 years, so if the goal is to increase player count then they are who ought to be taken into consideration. Players who've stuck around for 7+ years are statistically not very significant.

Even from my own perspective, as someone who's known this game since 2005 or so, I care nothing for the so-called history that you and Tom preach. A sense of history, like that of any fantasy setting, is of course important. But that sense is functionally the same whether it's based on eleven years of game play, just two, or entirely made up. It's not like the game world would seem any less fleshed out if it were younger.

Again from my own perspective, my main concern is game play. What I care about are Islands that are at peace most of the time, constantly leaking players; players who are functionally inactive, never bothering to write or move; geopolitical structures that have, for the most part, remained unchanged for years on end. Those things are what have an impact on my playing experience. History, the type that you speak of, has no bearing on my enjoyment at all. It's documented on the wiki anyway.

Tom

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But that all is off topic. The topic was about forums. Delete it and some other place will fill the void and the circle is even smaller than it is now. OOC communication and discussion will not end. Atleast the forum is public and people have to consider their thoughts a bit more than in IM conversations.

I want OOC discussions and encourage them. That's why the game always had a place for this, first the discussion list now this.

It is the mix of IC and OOC that has always caused trouble wherever you encounter it. That is why the Locals forums were closed, not any other. IC stuff should remain in-game and OOC stuff shold remain out of the game. It really is as simple as that.

Anaris

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There is an undue focus on CE. If CE, it's allies and Darka weren't dominant, than some other group of realms would be.

This is a very common misconception—and hardly one limited to BM—the idea that "if the groups that dominate this arena were to be wiped off the face of the earth tomorrow, some other groups would rise very quickly to exactly mimic the current situation."

However, it's also very rarely true.

Much more often, if you removed the groups that currently dominate, especially if there are a few very powerful players among them, you would see a much more diverse and fragmented lot appear to take their place.

And for Cthulhu's sake, if you were to destroy "CE, its allies, and Darka," that would remove most of the realms on Atamara, so what would grow up in their place would be pretty completely up in the air.
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Geronus

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I think the problem is partly exactly that its public, one silly message can nullify outstanding plan... cause everybody gets to know about it too early.

I'm sure if people want to discuss "secret" things OOCly, they wont do it at forums anyway.

When has this actually happened?

Geronus

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I want OOC discussions and encourage them. That's why the game always had a place for this, first the discussion list now this.

It is the mix of IC and OOC that has always caused trouble wherever you encounter it. That is why the Locals forums were closed, not any other. IC stuff should remain in-game and OOC stuff shold remain out of the game. It really is as simple as that.

So now we'll just talk about it on IRC instead. m2rt is right about that. Besides, what trouble is it causing, really? Nothing that more aggressive moderation can't handle.

Dante Silverfire

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I want OOC discussions and encourage them. That's why the game always had a place for this, first the discussion list now this.

It is the mix of IC and OOC that has always caused trouble wherever you encounter it. That is why the Locals forums were closed, not any other. IC stuff should remain in-game and OOC stuff shold remain out of the game. It really is as simple as that.

If this is true, then you shouldn't close the Local forums. You should open them up again and simple increase moderation forcefulness.

I readily volunteer to moderate the Atamara forum. I read every post anyway, and can be quick about it. Just place firm moderation in place, and the locals will be a boon to the game. Deleting them though is a mistake.
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Elegant

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Please excuse me for a little interruption. The original topic is about Local Forums, but, I feel bad that some people are dragging CE in this whole debate/discussion and are trying to prove something which is unrelated to this topic. I am completely surprised when I see people suggesting strange things like :

1. "Unless the leaders of CE, Tara, Talerium, and Strombran are somehow removed via deletion, pausing, or being forcibly removed, the political atmosphere on Atamara will NEVER change at this point."  I would like to say that please see the history of real world. The rule of great rulers was brought to an end by some ways. You have to play the game right to break CE alliance, please don't suggest to break the game itself.

2. The sheep theory : I disagree. Please have some respect for the intellect of the players playing this game. They are not mindless Zombies who follow their leaders. They apply their own brain and play. You should at listen when they all speak/vote.

(In reply to the post : "most players are sheep. If their ruler says, "This is what you want," and you then ask them what they want, they will say exactly what their ruler told them they wanted. That doesn't mean that we, as devs and GMs, should listen to them when the players of the largest realm on the continent say they want it to remain supreme".)

Some people are bent on somehow proving that CE alliance is the reason of all troubles of BM and are continuing posting against CE, which is completely off-topic. If such people want to post against CE, then please wait for Atamara Local to reopen (then you can continue your regular job of demeaning CE by saying that our friends are actually our puppets, CE is a bully, CE destroys fun, CE is bad for game, more than 50% of continent is cowards as if you are sitting in their minds and know what they are thinking. That's the reason I feel bad whenever I see atamara local and that's the reason why I don't post there for the fear of flame-war)

Anaris

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1. "Unless the leaders of CE, Tara, Talerium, and Strombran are somehow removed via deletion, pausing, or being forcibly removed, the political atmosphere on Atamara will NEVER change at this point."  I would like to say that please see the history of real world. The rule of great rulers was brought to an end by some ways. You have to play the game right to break CE alliance, please don't suggest to break the game itself.

Sure. It was brought to an end by their deaths.

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2. The sheep theory : I disagree. Please have some respect for the intellect of the players playing this game. They are not mindless Zombies who follow their leaders. They apply their own brain and play. You should at listen when they all speak/vote.

It's not about intelligence, it's about temperament. I know some quite intelligent people IRL who still prefer not to worry too much about the running of things, but just go with the flow.

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Some people are bent on somehow proving that CE alliance is the reason of all troubles of BM

Nope, just of Atamara ;D
Timothy Collett

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Dante Silverfire

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Well, seeing as the topic is about local forums, and this Atamara discussion is one of the ones of the local forum which is in question, I don't see it as being completely off topic. A tangent perhaps, but not off-topic.

As to CE, I don't think anyone is saying CE itself is full of sheep. CE is quite possibly one of the best realms in the game. It is CE's allies (which at last count is nearly every realm on the continent) that are a lot of times full of sheep. I think CE just gets an overly bad name because people assume it is the one in control, and most of its allies are its puppets.
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Elegant

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Well, seeing as the topic is about local forums, and this Atamara discussion is one of the ones of the local forum which is in question, I don't see it as being completely off topic. A tangent perhaps, but not off-topic.

It is completely off-topic. If it is not, then please tell me what has the breaking up of CE alliance to do with shutting down of Locals? Will the discussion about "need-to-break-up-evil-CE alliance" somehow save the Local forum section or even contribute towards the first post written by Tom? (please see his starting post for reference)

Dante Silverfire

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It is completely off-topic. If it is not, then please tell me what has the breaking up of CE alliance to do with shutting down of Locals? Will the discussion about "need-to-break-up-evil-CE alliance" somehow save the Local forum section or even contribute towards the first post written by Tom? (please see his starting post for reference)

When referencing the first post, I'd say half of the last 5 pages are off-topic.

But, I think the main topic overall is what is destroying battlemaster. Tom is arguing that it is forummaster that is at fault. Others, such as myself, are arguing other reasons.
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Fleugs

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When referencing the first post, I'd say half of the last 5 pages are off-topic.

But, I think the main topic overall is what is destroying battlemaster. Tom is arguing that it is forummaster that is at fault. Others, such as myself, are arguing other reasons.

And it is the arguing that is the cause.
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Elegant

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It's not about intelligence, it's about temperament. I know some quite intelligent people IRL who still prefer not to worry too much about the running of things, but just go with the flow.

Okay. Understood. They go with the flow. Does it mean that their opinion will not count when you take any game survey or something like that?

Elegant

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But, I think the main topic overall is what is destroying battlemaster. Tom is arguing that it is forummaster that is at fault. Others, such as myself, are arguing other reasons.

And one of the other reasons which is destroying battlemaster is CE? GOD ! Looks like I will have to leave forums and go back to sleep.

Good night guys. Take care.