Author Topic: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster  (Read 132116 times)

Geronus

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Uh, this topic started with such a quote?

It's not a full quote though. You reference an email you got and directly quote a single line out of it, but it doesn't appear to be the entire email so there's no context. Was this player quitting? What reasons did he or she give to support that line? What specifically did this player object to? The same questions exist about all these others whom you purport to speak for. What reasons exactly are they giving, and are they entirely and exclusively the same reasons you've been giving in this thread? As of right now we have only your interpretation of the situation to rely upon, which those of us who disagree with you are not inclined to accept without a chance to examine the same evidence that you are using for ourselves. Maybe if we actually saw what you are seeing, some of us would change our minds. Even if we didn't we'd certainly have a better idea than now of what the problems really are, and hence we might be better positioned to make good suggestions.

There is also Penchant's point; it may well be the case that for every player who has cited the forum as a reason to leave the game, there is another player out there who stayed or came back because of them. Both myself and Dante Silverfire have already stated plainly that we probably would not have started playing again after once pausing all our characters if the forum had not re-sparked our interest in the game. You don't hear from those players Tom because there's no prompt that pops up when you unpause all your characters asking "Why did you decide to start playing again?"

Wolfang

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I will stop posting in this topic, I've been warned for 'insulting' Tom for changing Gustav's name in Tom's post, with Tom's name in this post. (I think, this is it since I can't see what post I have been warned for)


So, I assume you read the parts about fanatical devotion, emotional reactions, over-reacting and disregard for the impact of ones actions, but you can not see the connection?


I'm sorry, Gustav. For the past weeks you have come out in many topics and you consistently oppose anything I say, usually with one-liners. I'm not in the mood of wasting a lengthy explanation. I do see a strong connection, with the zeal and blindness we are talking about here springing from the same source.

From this I can presume, it's okay for Tom stonewall people out of a discussion by implying they are blinded by zeal, but not ok when you do the same for Tom. If it's considerd insulting for me to imply this for Tom, why is it ok for Tom to do the same?

"No Gustav, you can't be part of this conversationg because you are crazy?" I don't know Gustav at all, but thought the post was uncalled for, hence mine.

I haven't insulted anyone in this entire thread, and have pretty much stopped posting since it's been clear Tom won't change his views, whereas I have consistently seen Tom slandering others, most notably in the deleted posts where he calls all forum-goers loner-nerds pretty much acting like someone who knows there are no consequences for his own actions.

Guilty as charged, and not apologizing.

If someone makes up an arbitrary rule in an open communication, other parties are under no obligation to honour it. It takes consent and consensus for that to happen. Obviously, there was no such consensus.

Please post your reply without using the letter "e".

I understand that forum-discussions can get heated, but the double standards have achieved what the closing of the locals haven't, make me not want to come to the forums. It's ironic people keep referring to this thread to 'proove their point' about the forum being bad, when this is the first thread I have seen which has this kind of behaviour.

Anaris

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I will stop posting in this topic, I've been warned for 'insulting' Tom for changing Gustav's name in Tom's post, with Tom's name in this post. (I think, this is it since I can't see what post I have been warned for)

"There, fixed that for you" is, at best, a passive-aggressive way of attempting to get your point across, and you're not the first person to be warned for it.

A better way to get across the same general idea you were trying to convey would have been along the lines of, "Tom, I feel that what you are saying about Gustav applies to you, as well."
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Tom

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It's not a full quote though. You reference an email you got and directly quote a single line out of it, but it doesn't appear to be the entire email so there's no context.

Of course not. I don't post private e-mails on public forums. I'm shocked that needs to be pointed out.


Tom

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"No Gustav, you can't be part of this conversationg because you are crazy?" I don't know Gustav at all, but thought the post was uncalled for, hence mine.

You are reading stuff that isn't written anywhere.

Tom

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You are reading stuff that isn't written anywhere.

Clarification:

You forget that there's a power imbalance on this forum. If I really wanted to shut someone up, I wouldn't have to tell them, I could just do it. From that follows that the inverse is illogical: Why would I try to shut someone up through words if I can do it with 10% the effort through the admin interface?

Wolfang

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"There, fixed that for you" is, at best, a passive-aggressive way of attempting to get your point across, and you're not the first person to be warned for it.

A better way to get across the same general idea you were trying to convey would have been along the lines of, "Tom, I feel that what you are saying about Gustav applies to you, as well."
I agree that posts like mine and Tom's aren't acceptable, which is why I reposted the ftfy, but with Tom's name, and I'm fine with being warned for it. Conveying general ideas doesn't seem to work so well here,  you and Geronus are the only ones left not frustrated enough to have quit this 'constructive discussion', seems like 90% of the forum-goers have stopped forum-going, and you guys are going to have to represent them.


You are reading stuff that isn't written anywhere.

It goes without saying I didn't mean literally 'to-shut-him-up', but claiming the other side is fanatical and zealous, is an often used stratagem to effectively ignore that person, since, all they're saying is fanatical anyway.

Obviously, you'd make yourself immensely unpopular by deleting people's accounts whenever you don't agree with them.



Geronus

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Of course not. I don't post private e-mails on public forums. I'm shocked that needs to be pointed out.

It's not hard to get someone's permission, then remove any personally identifying information from the text, which in an email is generally the address and the signature (if any). You clearly considered this email to be very significant for some reason, or you wouldn't have done what you did. In that case, wouldn't it serve the community to also read what this anonymous player wrote? Evidently he or she had some important things to say, things that are now having far-ranging repercussions for the game and for the community. As far as the leaving the game messages go, presumably those players left them with the understanding that they wrote would be read and considered by someone, if not multiple someones.

The point is, you're the only one who's seen the evidence, such as it is, which leaves the rest of us relying solely on you to define the nature and parameters of the problem, and you give the appearance of being biased. Maybe you're not, but we can't know since we haven't seen any of the evidence you're using to formulate your position. We don't even know how many emails you've gotten, or how many players specifically mentioned the forum in their leaving the game message. We also have no conception of what it is that those players had a problem with. We only know what you've told us, but frankly some of that sounds more like problems that you have with the forum than problems that potentially many players have with it. The lack of interaction in the game for example; I have never, until this thread, heard anyone blame the forum for this problem. I think many people would agree that sometimes the forum gets toxic, but the most reasonable approach to solving that problem isn't shutting down a huge portion of the forum in a knee-jerk reaction, it's to improve moderation. More moderators, armed with better guidelines, and some education to the community about what to report and when should prevent or mitigate the vast majority of what problems there have been.

Kai

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There are enough moderators but most have too much skin in the game, and some of them just aren't very good. Also you just made up a solution without giving any reasoning or evidence.

egamma

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There are enough moderators but most have too much skin in the game, and some of them just aren't very good. Also you just made up a solution without giving any reasoning or evidence.

Your post does nothing to advance this thread in any fashion; this, along with your constant negativity, is why you keep getting moderated. You make two negative statements about the moderators, but provide no evidence to support it.

I suspect you are a little sore at all the moderator attention directed at you. As one of the four moderators who has given you points, I'm interested to know if you think all 4 of us were wrong for giving you those points, or just some of us.

Kai

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Wasn't aware that 'negativity' is an offence. Most of them were plausibly fair, but one or two made me question reading comprehension skills. Since there is no straightforward recourse I didn't do anything. Moderating my previous post:

 
There are enough moderators but most have too much skin in the game, and some of them just aren't very good. Also you just made up a solution without giving any reasoning or evidence.

Just makes no sense to me. I can't say that the current mods have conflict of interest in game (obviously true statement, whether they act on it or not), and some of them aren't very good (probably true, unless you think 100% of mods are good)? What a joke.

It advances the topic by directly refuting a claim in the previous post that the silver bullet solution to Forumaster is more moderators.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 08:11:15 AM by Kai »

Penchant

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It advances the topic by directly refuting a claim in the previous post that the silver bullet solution to Forumaster is more moderators.
You will also notice that they said with clear guidelines so moderators and posters alike can better understand what is ok and what is not. When a very clear policy is made, moderating posts becomes much easier, although at this time I don't believe the moderators to have clear guidelines yet. Clearer guidelines allows both the mods and posters to know what is ok and what is not, which for posters means they will be able to abide by the rules easier (its hard to abide by rules when you don't know what they are) and for the mods because they will then be able to decide if a particular post is an issue much easier than before. My apologies for some of the redundancy in the post although I am leaving it.
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Kai

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Yeah I grant better guidelines would help.

cenrae

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I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this discussion. First off i'm a low forum poster but read the Dwilight locals nearly daily. When it shut down I felt a huge void in my participation of the game. Aside from a few people having some issues with others on the forums I felt the locals gave me a better understanding of what was going on island wide even if it was ooc. Other then Sanguis Astroism there is in my opinion little realm to realm interaction on events out side ones own realm. Can the forums influence players, sure but I feel most are able to effectively play their characters even with a little ooc knowledge.

Bring back the locals forums please.
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Zakilevo

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Sadly people confuse ooc and ic quite often and I am very happy that locals are gone.

If you really want to find out what is happening on the other side of your continent, contact people in game.