Author Topic: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster  (Read 132153 times)

Indirik

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Also the d-list will be back, presumably.
This is not a given. In fact, I would venture to say that it wouldn't be brought back.
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Wolfang

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This whole discussion needs to be restarted so there is an 'ok' proposal by the time Tom returns.

Some people want the forums shut down completely, others want the locals returned completely.

Compromise people. I'm sure we can do it, heck, even Belgium got a government after almost two years without.

It must be somewhere in between.

Anaris

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This whole discussion needs to be restarted so there is an 'ok' proposal by the time Tom returns.

Some people want the forums shut down completely, others want the locals returned completely.

Compromise people. I'm sure we can do it, heck, even Belgium got a government after almost two years without.

It must be somewhere in between.

First of all, there are a number of people who believe that the original concerns were vastly overblown, and the closing of the locals was a knee-jerk overreaction. For them, asking that things go back to exactly the way they were is far from unreasonable.

Second of all, I think it's optimistic to think that we can come up with any one proposal that everyone involved will, in fact, agree to support. When you've got people saying in all seriousness that we should close the forums down, do you really think they'll be willing to support the same proposals as people who think the forums have been a great boon to the game, and that closing them down would be a huge loss?

Third of all, I don't believe that anyone is, in fact, asking that things go back to exactly the way they were. From what I've seen, everyone who wants the Locals to reopen agrees that they should do so with considerably stricter moderation and clearer guidelines for both players and moderators.

So, there's my proposal: Put together some solid, common-sense guidelines for what's considered acceptable, and make it clear that anything that deviates from them will be ruthlessly deleted, and the offending poster given an official warning. Then, reopen the Local boards, and see how things go. Give it a trial period of a few months, at least. The game has survived this long with the allegedly terrible, awful forums; a few months with a significantly less lawless Locals section is certainly not going to kill it, even if the worst of the accusations here are true. At the end of that time, evaluate whether the boards seem to be causing undue trouble, and if not, let them stay. If they are, then we will need to work out something else to do with them.
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Geronus

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Here's my attempt to take into account the various concerns I have heard in this thread. Critique away.

Quote
1. The Game Discussion board is for OOC discussion about the game. Here you are a player, not your character. Think and act accordingly.

2. Do not quote messages from within the game under any circumstances, even ones you sent.

3. No spoilers. Do not discuss events that are not public knowledge in at least one realm.

4. Respect the Social Contract. Here, that means be polite to your fellow players at all times. It is acceptable to disagree with them. It is not acceptable to abuse them because you disagree with them.

5. Remember that every character and every realm has a player or players behind it. Please refrain from over-the-top criticism, excessive negativity, snarky comments, or trolling of any sort.

6. If someone makes you angry because they have violated any of the first 5 rules, don't respond in kind. Stop, breathe, and then use the Report function. The Moderators will deal with the situation.

Stabbity

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Well damn, that looks near identical to what I was writing up. I approve.
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Kai

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Here's my attempt to take into account the various concerns I have heard in this thread. Critique away.

The only interesting rule there is 2. 6 is just feel good snake oil. Rest seem ok. Still thing the best moderation is to flatten it so that everyone has to read every thread title.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 05:08:52 AM by egamma »

egamma

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Players who want to become heavily invested in the game usually find their way to the forum, even if they just lurk like me. Players who aren't in the forum usually won't become committed to the game anyway. It's absolutely hilariously to alienate your most loyal players to hope that it would some how make the come-and-go crowd of players feel more comfortable.

The majority of long-term players I know, aren't on the forum. I'm talking about people who have been playing for 3+ years; 80% of the players I know aren't on the forums much.

Penchant

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The majority of long-term players I know, aren't on the forum. I'm talking about people who have been playing for 3+ years; 80% of the players I know aren't on the forums much.
Random statistics, are random statistics and overall useless. I would say that the forum has a much higher amount of people viewing then posting, although I have no easy way to check that.
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Geronus

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The only interesting rule there is 2. 6 is just feel good snake oil. Rest seem ok. Still thing the best moderation is to flatten it so that everyone has to read every thread title.

Six is probably the most important one in terms of the impact we want these rules to have. The entire point is to make it so people don't feel like they have to leap in to defend their character/realm/whatever from negative comments posted by others. They have to be able to trust that if they report an offensive post, the Moderators will handle things appropriately.

Also, please give the people who volunteer to try to make this community a better place a break. The Moderators will respond to reports. They will do that because they are good people who have volunteered their time for the benefit of all of us. Therefore, Rule #6 is not snake oil. It is a solemn promise that there are people out there dedicated to making the forum a better place, and with everyone's cooperation, they will succeed.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 06:21:29 AM by Geronus »

Kai

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There are only like 50 people using this forum per day. The mod ratio is at worst 1/10. If that's not sufficient, no number will ever be.

Penchant

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There are only like 50 people using this forum per day. The mod ratio is at worst 1/10. If that's not sufficient, no number will ever be.
Posting, yeah. On a daily basis I doubt there is even 50 different people posting. Using the forum, like reading or posting, I would say there is very likely many more than that. How many people use the forum though doesn't matter, its the amount of posts that does.

In a busy month like March of this year, there was somewhere between 54 and 297 with 29/31 days being above 100 posts, with 6/31 days being above 200 posts, an average of 164 posts a day that month, and 5080 posts overall. A slower month, like May of this year, had only 12/31 days above 100 posts, somewhere between 31 posts and 158 posts, an average of 87 posts, and 2704 posts total. while slower months with generally less postings isn't bad overall to moderate, 158 posts still is going to be quite a bit that day, and a month like March much harder to keep up with everything when the average is 164 posts. While there are some statistics on the the business and slowness of the months, thats still not one of big issues.

Until about a little over a month ago, there was no posted moderation policy for mods to be able to use, thus they were dependant on the report to moderator button much more than now because moderating without a specific policy makes it hard to really be able to say that shades of grey went too far without having something to refer to. A real policy, for both mods and posters to read, makes it easier for posters to be civil by having something they can refer to and moderators to be able to more easily moderate through less clear issues.
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Kai

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Are there really no guidelines at all? Explains a lot. Giving random people mod and expecting it to just work is unlikely. Post volume isn't that bad. Even with only 5 mods/admins a day, reading 20 posts each isn't hard. Should limit the number of posts per person per day. Would probably fix things.

vonGenf

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Until about a little over a month ago, there was no posted moderation policy for mods to be able to use,

There is now? I thought we were still debating that. Where can we see it?
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Lefanis

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Ever since the locals were frozen, I haven't made more than a post or two to the new forum (granted, it comes at a point where I am very busy IRL). It reminds me of the dlist, where I subscribed but hardly bothered writing to. I didn't consider myself very active on the forum, though I guess my post count says otherwise. I used to post about once a day, tops. I used to look forward to reading the locals, and not just for the islands I was on either, and they were easily the most fun boards. Now the only reason I log on to the forum is hoping some sort of consensus is being reached towards getting back the locals, and for the other games section.

Apologies if the thread has moved beyond this, I have been busy and have scant Internet access, and have been unable to read all 25 pages of this thread. I think the rules outlined by Geronus are good ones, something to build upon if the locals are brought back. I don't believe that freezing the locals will turn me away from the game, but it certainly lowers my long term interest and desire to participate in the game itself.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 10:46:08 AM by Lefanis »
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Wolfang

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Stuff

I agree,

I would like to add a rule like:

-Do not write the following types of posts "My character thinks xxx about yyy" or "My character's character is like xxx" and of the like.



I know one or two people who have a tendency to do this sometimes.