Author Topic: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster  (Read 132151 times)

Anaris

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #435: September 25, 2013, 09:18:37 PM »
You do know people can just make a forum without making their own game right? They can just make their personal forum where they can discuss BM stuff :p

I was actually in one although it only had 5-10 people or so. Discussing mainly about creating a religion and stuff.

I was exaggerating for effect. The point, which you seem to have missed, was that yes, every single player in BattleMaster could create their own forum if they wanted to, but they wouldn't have anywhere remotely resembling the kind of draw or clout that the official BattleMaster forum does.

And, well...there is already a BattleMaster forum. And it had a Locals board. And so far as I understand it, there's a general consensus—including from Tom—that the Locals should be reopened, now that we have the clearer guidelines for moderation, it just hasn't happened yet.

One thing that a lot of people seem to miss in all this is that taking away something that people already have is really quite different from never giving it to them in the first place. Yes, if there was never a forum, we would have been getting along OK. But even if you disagree with me that the forum has been a net boon for the game, to remove or cripple it now would be a very bad thing for the game as a whole.
Timothy Collett

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Vellos

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #436: September 26, 2013, 02:24:47 AM »
And, have you tried putting the time and effort previously put into the forums, into the game?

Doing what? Spamming the realm channel?

Besides, it won't accomplish anything. I'm not allowed to talk about game events with other players anymore on game-sanctioned channels and my loathing of IRC is well-known. There's no crowd to play for, no community to commentate... nobody's going to hear what's going on through a rumor chain and get involved because it sounded fun.

Don't really see the point. I'll probably be pausing some characters in the next few days or weeks.
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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #437: September 26, 2013, 08:03:55 AM »
I do believe one of my characters sent a message to a region Cyrilos Vellos was in. I don't recall a reply. One would've thought that someone who found the lack of out-of-game Local boards discouraging for their actual gaming experience would at least jump at the opportunity to write someone in-game.

Vellos

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #438: September 26, 2013, 02:31:15 PM »
I do believe one of my characters sent a message to a region Cyrilos Vellos was in. I don't recall a reply. One would've thought that someone who found the lack of out-of-game Local boards discouraging for their actual gaming experience would at least jump at the opportunity to write someone in-game.

Cyrilos is one I'm considering pausing.

And again, you're all misunderstanding how human motivation works.

Giving a person fewer opportunities to engage does not necessarily make each opportunity more valuable. If there are "economies of scale" (and there almost always are), then reducing opportunities to engage makes each opportunity LESS valuable.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #439: September 26, 2013, 02:43:40 PM »
Cyrilos is one I'm considering pausing.

And again, you're all misunderstanding how human motivation works.

Giving a person fewer opportunities to engage does not necessarily make each opportunity more valuable. If there are "economies of scale" (and there almost always are), then reducing opportunities to engage makes each opportunity LESS valuable.

You have...what, 12-30 people in each of your realms? Send each of them a private letter; make up a reason. Maybe starting a guild, religion, or secret society?

Wolfang

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #440: September 26, 2013, 02:45:37 PM »
People underestimate the value of the forums. I liked reading through them to pass time between reading messages (not that many as a knight-only player).

Anaris

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #441: September 26, 2013, 03:08:22 PM »
You have...what, 12-30 people in each of your realms? Send each of them a private letter; make up a reason. Maybe starting a guild, religion, or secret society?

Again, you're completely missing his point.

Without the extra engagement that the Locals provided, he just doesn't feel the urge to interact in BM at all. (Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you somewhat, Vellos, but I think that's what you were trying to say.) Their removal has sapped his motivation to actually play the game, because they really provided an extra spark of fun and interaction that is now lacking.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Perth

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #442: September 26, 2013, 03:45:40 PM »
It's like sports, folks. People don't just want to watch sports they want to talk about the sports they watched, discuss upcoming games, players, injuries, hires, etc.

Removing ESPN SportsCenter/friends who also like sports doesn't encourage people to watch more sports because there is no sports commentary to watch anymore... it actively decreases their interest in watching sports because they no longer have a community to talk to about those sports.

The very same with the forums.


I'll probably be pausing some characters in the next few days or weeks.

In the past month or so I've paused all my characters except for Kale. Reasons for that are combination of factors not least of which is the fact that I'm super busy this semester, but the lack community interaction has certainly played a role in my in-game interest/motivation to play.
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Indirik

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #443: September 26, 2013, 06:15:46 PM »
It's like sports, folks. People don't just want to watch sports they want to talk about the sports they watched, discuss upcoming games, players, injuries, hires, etc.

Removing ESPN SportsCenter/friends who also like sports doesn't encourage people to watch more sports because there is no sports commentary to watch anymore... it actively decreases their interest in watching sports because they no longer have a community to talk to about those sports.

The very same with the forums.
Awesome summary, Perth. Thanks for restating it like this.
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Geronus

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #444: September 26, 2013, 06:25:19 PM »
I too have lost interest in the game lately. I can't say for sure that the forum is the direct cause of that, but I can tell you that the forum often used to provide me with motivation/inspiration to be more active in the game.

Energy is not the simple zero sum game that egamma keeps relating it back to. Energy in this context isn't a limited commodity, and it can feed on itself to create more. When I used to visit the local boards, I would read about things going on in other places that sounded really great, and I would get other players' perspectives on things that were happening that my characters were involved in. Reading about these things made me want to play the game more, not less, which led to me spending more time on both the forum and the game in a self-reinforcing cycle. Other people's interest in the game made me interested the game.

Again, I will not say definitively that the closure of the local boards is the only factor in why I suddenly find myself logging in, at best, once every couple days (I also have been traveling an absurd amount for work). That said, the correlation is there, and since they've been gone I've simply found that I no longer have as much interest as I did before, so that even when I have abundant free time I just don't bother to log in. Sure, I could make a conscious effort to try to make interesting things happen in the game to renew my own interest, but that involves a significant expenditure of energy. It used to be that the game itself or the forum gave me energy, made me want to play. Now it's the other way around. I have to spend energy to motivate myself to try to make things happen. It's not sustainable for me.

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #445: September 26, 2013, 10:08:40 PM »
BM thrives as an ecosystem. When you gather with your friends to play a boardgame, it's not just the game itself that contributes to the mirth, but also getting to know your friends better through social interaction outside the boundaries and characters of the game. If everyone restricted their interaction to purely within the boardgame, I doubt the night would be as fun.

Yes, social interaction takes potential time and energy away from focusing on the boardgame itself, but without it people may simply choose to not come at all.
The above is accurate 25% of the time, truthful 50% of the time, and facetious 100% of the time.

Vellos

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #446: September 27, 2013, 12:29:37 AM »
It's like sports, folks. People don't just want to watch sports they want to talk about the sports they watched, discuss upcoming games, players, injuries, hires, etc.

Removing ESPN SportsCenter/friends who also like sports doesn't encourage people to watch more sports because there is no sports commentary to watch anymore... it actively decreases their interest in watching sports because they no longer have a community to talk to about those sports.

The very same with the forums.

Bingo.

Again, you're completely missing his point.

Without the extra engagement that the Locals provided, he just doesn't feel the urge to interact in BM at all. (Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you somewhat, Vellos, but I think that's what you were trying to say.) Their removal has sapped his motivation to actually play the game, because they really provided an extra spark of fun and interaction that is now lacking.

HOW DARE YOU CORRECTLY SUMMARIZE MY OPINION!
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Atanamir

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #447: September 27, 2013, 08:50:43 AM »
At least for EC, Erik and Atanamir have founded at the begin of September an inter-continental guild, which should become a channel where everyone can talk with everyone and gossip can be exchanged, no diplomacy borders etc... but all IG.

The feedback is tremendous, we have already guildhouses in 8 cities and members from almost all realms with more guildhouses coming soon.

Only the guild/religion actions bug stopped things from going even faster.

An example where you can transfer local forums to IC means.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 08:55:41 AM by Atanamir »

Jaden

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #448: September 27, 2013, 09:04:51 AM »
The thing is the guild is IC though, and the local forums serve a purpose by allowing for discussion amongst players.
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Atanamir

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Re: stopping ForumMaster from destroying BattleMaster
« Reply #449: September 27, 2013, 09:32:45 AM »
The thing is the guild is IC though, and the local forums serve a purpose by allowing for discussion amongst players.

For that there is the General Discussion thread on the Forum.
No need for the Locals.
The Locals are the the reason why IC none talks about IC things and why people prefer to talk about it here.