Author Topic: Can we improve the wiki?  (Read 5490 times)

jaune

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #15: August 06, 2013, 11:49:56 AM »
Not sure if i understood right what you meant, but aint joomla and such pretty much what you are looking for?
Or is that "too heavy" solution?
http://demo.joomla.org/

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Swiftblade

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #16: August 06, 2013, 01:12:18 PM »
Tom I don't think you looked at the examples and what I'm getting at.

Its not really like a "blog", and it can use all of the wiki formatting. So you could get a template, pop it in and have it as issue one. Each ISSUE would go to the top, with maybe small blurbs (formatted nicely and in character or whatever) if some important info comes up and needs to be talked about now, even though you don't have time for a full issue. You can still do the important info at the top of each issue yadda yadda (although i think your asking a little much, seeing as no one is doing newspapers right now, and any that have info are really incomplete because they take a lot of time.)

The point is, it would save 10min of the authors time doing the linking, it would be a nice way to specify writers and do collab work, it would be easier to monitor and a list of papers could then be linked from the front page, and the RSS and ATOM features would make it easier and likely attract more readers because they aren't having to physically check back all the time to see that there is a new issue.

Really, what have you got to lose by testing it out and seeing what the community comes up with. If you are expecting people to be pro journalists/editors your already aiming way to high. Also this saves people some time, and they can still go over the top and flashy with nice templates and such if that's what they so choose. Better to start of with something that is easy to use, lay down some guidelines, and see what people create.

In saying all of this, a custom solution would be good, and yes it could be sold. It would just be if people used it or not at that point.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 01:21:57 PM by Swiftblade »

Anaris

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #17: August 06, 2013, 01:33:01 PM »
I see I need to elaborate.

The problem with blogs is that they do not prioritize. New information goes to the top, old information drops off the bottom.

Yep.

This is exactly what every newspaper on the BM Wiki ever looked like.
Timothy Collett

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jaune

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #18: August 06, 2013, 02:05:48 PM »
Now this runs a bit off from the topic... but
Would it be possible to make newspaper in the game? And that paper would be available anybody on the continent with 1-X gold fee. If you pay that fee, you get the newspaper and maker gets the gold.



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Swiftblade

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #19: August 06, 2013, 02:47:29 PM »
If a custom newspaper platform made in PHP was created then yes Juane, you could.

A simple variable in PHP saying if they paid the fee or not would be enough to get access, that should be easy enough, and you could even have it that you bought certain issues of a paper and not others.

A cool idea then would be to make each issue 2 gold and have 1 gold of that go to the publication house (could be like a guild) and 1 go to the "delivery man" so that money could be made to upgrade the paper, increase distribution etc (maybe even go toward regions, which then could become famous for their publishing houses). Could be an interesting new feature, and would encourage people to make good papers so they could keep publishing. If the paper doesn't sell, the nobles would have to support it from their own pocket etc. It would give people something extra to use their money on, keep news in the game, and be a good talking point.

Seems like a lot of work, but it would bring some variety to the game, and give an interesting take on economy.

Hell this could even be extended, so that guilds once they were a certain size could create "guild newsletters", kind of like a mini paper that contains information pertinent to the guild and they could sell for 1 gold to members (because the messenger system for guild members is already in place). It would give updates to members, create a reason to get into a continent wide guild (cheaper news), and present it in a fun, roleplaying type way.

And hey if a realm didn't want to use the system, they just don't build a publication house.

Might be complicated but it would be fun, and would answer a lot of questions, keeping news ingame etc, and really, it wouldn't be game breaking, and would open continent wide news up to those who don't wanna join a guild.

vonGenf

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #20: August 06, 2013, 03:00:37 PM »
Hell this could even be extended, so that guilds once they were a certain size could create "guild newsletters", kind of like a mini paper that contains information pertinent to the guild and they could sell for 1 gold to members (because the messenger system for guild members is already in place). It would give updates to members, create a reason to get into a continent wide guild (cheaper news), and present it in a fun, roleplaying type way.

You could also use the current guild mechanics of grant/fees, create a guild dedicated to a newspaper and publish only to full members.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Swiftblade

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #21: August 06, 2013, 03:39:19 PM »
Hmm that would make a good reason to join the guild, make it a bit more fun, professional and permanent, and if you wanted to get a large spread you would have to make good content to convince people to build a lot of your guild houses.

Tom

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #22: August 06, 2013, 04:40:44 PM »
Or is that "too heavy" solution?

By about 5 tons. I have plenty of experience with several CMS systems, and quite frankly, they're all [email protected]#$. If you know nothing about programming, or don't have the time and energy, they are great to set up some kind of site. But if you have something specific in mind, that deviates from the templates and modes available, they're horrible.

Tom

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #23: August 06, 2013, 04:42:23 PM »
This is exactly what every newspaper on the BM Wiki ever looked like.

That is simply not true. Most of the newspapers I read did a great job in creating an actual layout with meaning and then posted that as an edition/issue. Then they went to the next edition. They were very much closer to real newspapers than to blogs.

Tom

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #24: August 06, 2013, 04:44:46 PM »
Again:

If you want this to happen, find me a volunteer who understands Symfony2 and Doctrine. I know exactly what I want the system to look like and it could be standalone or in-game. But please don't make me do it myself, I have 100 projects on my desk right now that need my attention and I'm horrible at managing them when the amount goes beyond a certain limit (that they have long passed).


Anaris

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #25: August 06, 2013, 04:52:05 PM »
Again:

If you want this to happen, find me a volunteer who understands Symfony2 and Doctrine. I know exactly what I want the system to look like and it could be standalone or in-game. But please don't make me do it myself, I have 100 projects on my desk right now that need my attention and I'm horrible at managing them when the amount goes beyond a certain limit (that they have long passed).

If we have a volunteer who is already familiar with PHP at all, I can think of a lot of things we can put him (or her) to doing to help BM that should (IMNSHO) have much higher priority than coding up a nice way to make newspapers for the Wiki...
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Anaris

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #26: August 06, 2013, 04:54:03 PM »
That is simply not true. Most of the newspapers I read did a great job in creating an actual layout with meaning and then posted that as an edition/issue. Then they went to the next edition. They were very much closer to real newspapers than to blogs.

I apologize, I did not make myself entirely clear.

I must admit, I am making an important assumption: that the extension will allow using the actual "blog posts" themselves as an includable piece of a larger wiki page, so that the newspaper can, in fact, have both a newspaper-y layout and a simple backend for posting new entries.

Can anyone tell us whether or not the Wikilog extension will permit this?
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

egamma

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #27: August 06, 2013, 05:46:39 PM »
The example just has the typical "top to bottom" blog format: http://juliano.info/en/Blog:Memory_Leak

So I guess that's out.

A newspaper guild would make publishing easier, but wouldn't help with the "blog" part at all. Still, it's an interesting idea. aspirants would be "readers", members would be "writers", and elders would be "editors".

Indirik

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #28: August 06, 2013, 06:22:00 PM »
If a custom newspaper platform made in PHP was created then yes Juane, you could.
Standard wiki page text can be pulled into the game directly. Or at least Tom has said this in the past. We have debated getting rid of the IG region descriptions, and just linking to the region pages on the wiki. Or pulling the wiki text in and displaying it IG. If it was desired to bring the newspapers IG, which I don't think is a very good idea, we could just provide the wiki link. No real reason to provide the text IG.

Having to pay with IG gold to read the paper? That's a really bad idea. I can't imagine that anyone would regularly read it if it cost them to do it. I sure wouldn't bother.
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Indirik

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Re: Can we improve the wiki?
« Reply #29: August 06, 2013, 06:31:07 PM »
If you want this to happen, find me a volunteer who understands Symfony2 and Doctrine.

Tom, you're going way overboard with this. We don't need a full-fledged content management system to do wiki newspapers. All we need is someone who has a good knowledge of wiki authoring to make some templates, and write up instructions of how to use it. I created some very automated systems for the Dwilight Daily. I started trying to redo the TattleMaster with semantic forms and semantic data, but just couldn't make it lay out right with the semantic wiki template system. If someone could make that work, then you wouldn't need any coding at all.

In addition, I  think you're trying to design a system that just doesn't fit the way that wiki newspapers are done. They are done blog-style because that's the way that content is created. With only one or two people working on a paper, you don't get complete "issues" released all at once. You get one article a week, not 6 or more where you have to lay it all out, and have headlining stories, with bylines and filler.
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