Poll

How many different active wars are you currently involved in?

I am not involved in any war.
1 (2.3%)
One of my characters is involved in a war.
5 (11.6%)
Two of my characters are involved in a war
15 (34.9%)
Three of my characters are involved in a war.
14 (32.6%)
Four or more of my characters are involved in a war.
8 (18.6%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: September 26, 2013, 09:50:57 AM

Author Topic: How many wars are you in?  (Read 3505 times)

vonGenf

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How many wars are you in?
« Topic Start: August 27, 2013, 09:50:57 AM »
It is generally received wisdom that there aren't enough wars in BM. While I also share this gut feeling, I would like to put some hard numbers on it.

If you have two characters in the same realm, please count it as a single war. By active war I mean one where battles are actually taking place at least semi-regularly.

After all it's a roleplaying game.

pcw27

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #1: August 27, 2013, 10:00:00 AM »
Four?

Tom

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #2: August 27, 2013, 10:59:41 AM »
Statistics I just made - sums of diplomatic relations between realms, excluding rogue:




Mind you, this does not check if the war is actually being fought or just exists on paper.


vonGenf

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #3: August 27, 2013, 11:06:00 AM »
Statistics I just made - sums of diplomatic relations between realms, excluding rogue:

Do you mean that for each realm, you sum up the relations to all other realms? Then you will see mostly peace - I wouldn't expect everyone to be at war with everyone else!

If your realm is at war with one neighbour and at peace or neutral with all others, then it's at war, period.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Tom

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #4: August 27, 2013, 03:44:19 PM »
Do you mean that for each realm, you sum up the relations to all other realms?

Not per realm, but in total.

In numbers, this is what EI looks like right now:
Alliance    6
Peace    17
Neutral    19
War    3

I didn't check what those 3 wars are. Could be one realm fighting 3 others, or 3 seperate wars, so anywhere from 4-6 realms are involved in a war. It really is just a quick picture showing that peaceful relations dominate the game. I wouldn't expect war to be the largest slice, but it shows what many people feel intuitively - that there's too much peace in this game.

IMHO, "neutral" should be the largest slice, with the other two roughly balanced.

Anaris

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #5: August 27, 2013, 03:49:58 PM »
IMHO, "neutral" should be the largest slice, with the other two roughly balanced.

Unfortunately (as I said on the other thread), I don't think this is realistic. The players have shown, through the decade+ of BM's history, that they will seek out peaceful relations or alliances with other realms, even ones on the other side of the continent who they have next to no chance of ever meeting in person.

And frankly, unless we can come up with some really, really good game mechanics to encourage neutrality and discourage many peace treaties and alliances, I think this is likely to be one of those instances where we just have to accept that that's the way human nature is going to push, and let it be that way, rather than trying to force the playerbase to play in a way that we think is "right".
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Buffalkill

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #6: August 27, 2013, 04:30:25 PM »
How about some kind of fame or prestige point system for actions that are related to wars, like successfully taking over a region, participating in a major battle, commanding a unit with a high CS. It's human nature that players will usually do things that increase their fame and prestige, so create more fame/prestige incentives in war and war-related activities. Conversely, maybe you lose prestige when a region is taken from you. This would encourage players to vigorously defend their regions from being taken over, and would also discourage collusion.

vonGenf

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #7: August 27, 2013, 04:34:41 PM »
How about some kind of fame or prestige point system for actions that are related to wars, like successfully taking over a region, participating in a major battle, commanding a unit with a high CS. It's human nature that players will usually do things that increase their fame and prestige, so create more fame/prestige incentives in war and war-related activities. Conversely, maybe you lose prestige when a region is taken from you. This would encourage players to vigorously defend their regions from being taken over, and would also discourage collusion.

Participating in a major battle already gives you honour and prestige. I think there is a fame point for having a very large unit but it's unconfirmed.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Buffalkill

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #8: August 27, 2013, 04:45:13 PM »
Participating in a major battle already gives you honour and prestige. I think there is a fame point for having a very large unit but it's unconfirmed.


That's great. And I'm sure even more incentives (or penalties) could encourage more fighting.

egamma

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #9: August 27, 2013, 06:03:45 PM »
Not per realm, but in total.

In numbers, this is what EI looks like right now:
Alliance    6
Peace    17
Neutral    19
War    3

I didn't check what those 3 wars are. Could be one realm fighting 3 others, or 3 seperate wars, so anywhere from 4-6 realms are involved in a war. It really is just a quick picture showing that peaceful relations dominate the game. I wouldn't expect war to be the largest slice, but it shows what many people feel intuitively - that there's too much peace in this game.

IMHO, "neutral" should be the largest slice, with the other two roughly balanced.

The stats are very misleading. FEI basically has two large alliances at war with each other; every realm on the island is at war, just not with every single realm at once. Those "peaceful" relations actually contributed to the current war status!

Can you do charts that show how many realms have at least one war status? Or maybe do your pie chart with 0 wars, 1 war, 2 war, etc.

Buffalkill

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #10: August 27, 2013, 06:05:50 PM »
Atamara has 14 realms, of which 7 are currently at war with at least one other realm.

flames

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #11: August 27, 2013, 06:27:47 PM »
2 of 3 my chars are at war, and one war just recently ended

Dishman

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #12: August 27, 2013, 06:45:46 PM »
2 of 3 my chars are at war, and one war just recently ended

Same here. Perdan had two good wars going, but that ended maybe a month or two back. I had to travel to Astrum for a good war in Dwilight and emigrated to Outer Tilog after I saw the Riombarra war start to fizzle out.

Eoric the Dim (Perdan), Enoch the Bright (Asylon), Emeric the Dark (Obsidian Islands)

Orobos, The Insatiable Snake (Sandalak)

Atanamir

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #13: August 27, 2013, 07:07:59 PM »
Not per realm, but in total.

In numbers, this is what EI looks like right now:
Alliance    6
Peace    17
Neutral    19
War    3

I didn't check what those 3 wars are. Could be one realm fighting 3 others, or 3 seperate wars, so anywhere from 4-6 realms are involved in a war. It really is just a quick picture showing that peaceful relations dominate the game. I wouldn't expect war to be the largest slice, but it shows what many people feel intuitively - that there's too much peace in this game.

IMHO, "neutral" should be the largest slice, with the other two roughly balanced.

I may say as major war mongerer of EC in the last year, that till July EC was completely at war.
EC enters now a period of peace as it is always after big almost continental wars....that is completely normal, especially when many regions are depopulated and produce no gold.

Kwanstein

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Re: How many wars are you in?
« Reply #14: August 27, 2013, 08:42:57 PM »
Back when I started playing, about a year ago, I had a real tough time finding any war. I went maybe six months without seeing any serious fighting. Now that I've hopped my characters around a bit I've found some descent wars and battles.