Author Topic: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct  (Read 18686 times)

Tom

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #30: September 04, 2013, 06:58:27 PM »
then post violating messages on a new board called "Rogue's Gallery" along with how they were resolved,

Not going to happen. That amount of overhead would be the end of volunteer moderators.

Tom

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #31: September 04, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »
I still think #3 and #4 can be merged with a good wording. Something about IC and OOC seperation and that the forum is ALWAYS  OOC. You can remove the part about the Magistrates, btw.

Atanamir

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #32: September 04, 2013, 08:04:36 PM »
The actions taken will depend on the nature of the rule-breaking. I don't want someone to start bitching because we slapped him with 20 points instead of only 10.

This way it will though make it more difficult for the volunteer moderators to handle things, as they must always discuss verdicts and then justify them and then there is whining and then and then and then...endless food for rules lawyers.

If this should be enforced fast, effective and since we want to make people do not bad things at all, then you have to provide also the punishments.
For the sake of the mental health and time management of the moderators and of course also as deterrence for any possible offenders.
You simply don't discuss about 20 or 10 points. There is the rule. There is the punishment. You break the rule, you face the appropriate punishment.

Anaris

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #33: September 04, 2013, 08:15:58 PM »
This way it will though make it more difficult for the volunteer moderators to handle things, as they must always discuss verdicts and then justify them and then there is whining and then and then and then...endless food for rules lawyers.

No one said there wouldn't be guidelines for the moderators.

But there will not be anywhere you can look to see, "Oh, if I go and call someone a slimy !@#$head, I'll only get a warning and 10 points! It's been long enough since the last time I mouthed off on the forum, I can do that and not have any problems!"

No. The moderators will have broad discretion, particularly to deal with people who would like to be rules lawyers. So someone like the above hypothetical jerk would not just get 10 points if he was known to be a serial offender; he'd get quite a bit more than that. And if he kept it up—trying deliberately to avoid more serious punishments by carefully doling out his venom and vitriol—he'd start finding himself hitting bigger and bigger warnings for the same infractions.

What you suggest would not reduce the "food for rules lawyers," Atanamir, it would be a buffet for them.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Atanamir

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #34: September 04, 2013, 09:18:13 PM »
Well, I don't know what guidelines you have in mind and what is meant with those points but the punishments should be harsh, really harsh, IMO.
Only that works, unfortunately.

Like:

1st offense - warning, 1 day forum ban
2nd offense - 1 week forum ban
3rd offense - 1 month forum ban
4th offense - Lifetime forum ban

I think that kind of punishment would be the best deterrence to not break the rules at all.
Show me one person which will do it more than one time...

Tom

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #35: September 04, 2013, 09:38:15 PM »
This way it will though make it more difficult for the volunteer moderators to handle things, as they must always discuss verdicts and then justify them and then there is whining and then and then and then...endless food for rules lawyers.

Errr... no?

This is a forum, not a court of law. If a moderator deems a posting breaks the rules, he will moderate it and add warning points to the user who posted it. Once said user has accumulated enough warning points, he can no longer post for a while.

No discussion, no verdicts, no justifications and no rules lawyers.


The forum already has all these systems built-in. We are NOT going to invent even more new rules on how to handle crap.

Wolfang

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #36: September 04, 2013, 09:48:16 PM »
+1 What Tom says. Just look at other forums.

Indirik

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #37: September 04, 2013, 11:45:12 PM »
This way it will though make it more difficult for the volunteer moderators to handle things, as they must always discuss verdicts and then justify them and then there is whining and then and then and then...endless food for rules lawyers.
As Tom says, there are no verdicts. There is no discussion of verdicts. There is no justification or arguing. No one who has a moderator action taken against them will even know who did it, unless the moderator reveals their name in the process of taking the action. If anyone has issues with the moderator's actions, they can protest to Tom. Or, as some have done in the past, to me or Tim.

We keep this nice and simple. Action gets taken faster, and stuff gets dealt with quickly.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Buffalkill

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #38: September 05, 2013, 12:02:50 AM »
Not going to happen. That amount of overhead would be the end of volunteer moderators.
No way. The Mod Squad would love it. I know you think it'd give users one more thing to argue about, but it won't. It will get more users to be on the same page as the mods. It will actually pre-empt more arguments if they can go to the case history and see with their own eyes that they're being treated the same as anyone else under those circumstances, and the mods would still be free to create a new precedent whenever the situation called for it. Also, it will discourage the "rules lawyers" from thinking they can find loopholes, because they'll see with their own eyes the mods' broad discretionary authority.

As a side note, it has the added appeal of being deeply rooted in medieval common law, which we all can appreciate.

Anaris

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #39: September 05, 2013, 01:18:45 AM »
No way. The Mod Squad would love it.

Given that a significant percentage of the "Mod Squad" has been posting on this thread, agreeing with Tom's smackdowns of every attempt to lengthen the list of rules and amount of time they'll have to spend moderating...I really don't know where you think you're getting this idea.

It's not going to happen, and please don't presume to speak for other people—particularly those who are already speaking for themselves.
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"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Buffalkill

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #40: September 05, 2013, 01:52:35 AM »

agreeing with Tom's smackdowns of every attempt to lengthen the list of rules and amount of time they'll have to spend moderating...
Then I didn't explain it well, because every suggestion I've made has been to shorten the rules and make the moderators' task easier.

I really don't know where you think you're getting this idea.
I worked on implementing something similar at my job about 7 years ago and it's been very effective.


and please don't presume to speak for other people—particularly those who are already speaking for themselves.
The reason I don't preface every comment with "In my opinion..." is that anybody reading it knows whose opinion it is. Everybody here speaks for themselves. I was just making a suggestion.

Indirik

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #41: September 05, 2013, 02:25:48 AM »
It is an intriguing suggestion, but I don't think that I would enjoy the extra workload. I know that I'm not the only mod with limited time to spare.

Also, I would not want to enshrine the vitriol and insults in a Hall of Fame.

As far as rules lawyers go, I find that nothing discourages them fatser than a quick smackdown and refusal to debate the rules. Providing examples is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Eirikr

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #42: September 05, 2013, 04:56:50 AM »
As far as rules lawyers go, I find that nothing discourages them fatser than a quick smackdown and refusal to debate the rules. Providing examples is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

I believe this is implied, but to those who aren't seeing it, it may put them at ease: I'm sure any and all forum posts complaining about punishment will simply be deleted and the offender punished, perhaps more harshly than before.

Really, despite the recent fracas, running a forum isn't super difficult. The challenges stem from volume and anonymity rather than vague rules or rule lawyering. In no uncertain terms, it is Tom's forum; if you aren't playing by his rules... guess what? You aren't playing at all. (It's also a forum; it's not supposed to have a crushing impact on anything... If you get booted, it's not really a big deal  unless you make it so. In that case, you should be reassessing your priorities... or banned again because it'll keep happening.)

All that said, I don't think it'd be bad for the mods to have a private way to communicate what they did, though a repository is too much. Maybe somewhere for a mod to say, "hey guys, I don't know what to do..." and another to respond. It'll build up like the forum already has.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:58:29 AM by Eirikr »

Penchant

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #43: September 05, 2013, 05:02:56 AM »
All that said, I don't think it'd be bad for the mods to have a private way to communicate what they did, though a repository is too much. Maybe somewhere for a mod to say, "hey guys, I don't know what to do..." and another to respond. It'll build up like the forum already has.
SMF thought so too so its built into the moderation system with all reported posts, and if a moderator is questioning and wants to ask other moderators he/she can just report it with their comment for the other moderators to talk about.
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Eirikr

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Re: Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct
« Reply #44: September 05, 2013, 05:28:52 AM »
SMF thought so too so its built into the moderation system with all reported posts, and if a moderator is questioning and wants to ask other moderators he/she can just report it with their comment for the other moderators to talk about.

SMF?

Either way, cool. Problem solved, imo.