Advanced Mentoring and History: How to Gain Influence

[Bedwyr]

How to gain influence:

First rule is simple: Talk.  Very, very rarely will you get anything without getting your voice out there.  But don't be stupid about it.  The new guy who starts mouthing off about how the realm should completely change it's diplomacy makes more enemies than friends.  So, how do you talk without risking making a fool of yourself?

1. Ask questions.  Ask your liege, ask your Marshal, ask your Ruler, ask the General, ask your Duke.  Use personal letters, not letters to the realm.  Letters to message groups or guilds can work, but again, you have to know which ones are important and which aren't.  And once you have someone who answers questions, don't let the correspondence die.  Ask them about themselves, start to talk with them about whatever you can think of.

2. Talk after battles.  Congratulate the enemy on a well-fought battle.  Invite people to an impromptu post-battle celebration, and send a brief RP so they know it's not just polite words.  Congratulate Sir So-and-So for wounding the enemy General.  Offer Lord Thus-and-Such sympathy for being wounded in the first round.  Whatever you do, word it in such a way that it calls for the other person to respond.

Once you've gotten to know a few people and understand a bit better how things work, the actual influence gathering stage begins.  There are wildly different systems in Battlemaster, which require different approaches, but in essence figure out whether the position you want is selected by the Ruler, a Duke, all the Dukes, all the Lords, or the entire realm.  Each of these requires a somewhat different approach, and how you go about getting an elected position is rather different from how you get an appointed position, but this list should help with everything in general.

1. Find out what, if any, competition you have for the position.
2. Find out what traditions, if any, the realm has for the position.
3. Find out who really picks positions (does the King tell the Dukes who to appoint?  Does the Duchess ask her lords who to appoint to a lordship in-duchy?).
4. Send personal messages asking to all involved what you can do to prove yourself worthy.
5. Do not fixate on a single position, but stay flexible for other options if they arise.  Once you get one position, others are much easier.
6. Find out what factions exist in the realm (if you do a favour for the Duke of the capital, is that going to annoy the Judge?  Who is the Queen more likely to listen to?).
7. What religions are important to the realm/Ruler/Dukes/Lords, how seriously do they take religious affiliation?
8. Does the realm tend to reward Courtiers and the like who help fix regions, Traders who bring food to the starving cities, Warriors who fight well on the front lines...?
9. Find out where most discussions take place (the War Council?  A Senate?  One or more of the armies?  A guild, or religion?) and what you need to do to get in that group so you can start talking.
10. Spend some extra time making your character real, having actual motivations and such, to make it clear that this is a real person to those you talk to.

[Anaris]

How to gain influence:

First rule is simple: Talk.

This can't be stressed enough.  I can't tell you how many times I've appointed character A for a position, and had character B complain later (either to the realm, to me directly, or to someone else who passed it on to me) that they had more experience and had been in the realm longer, so they should have gotten the position.

But character A spoke up frequently, while character B just quietly followed orders.

This is also the reason why, despite what Bedwyr said, the value of going on IRC cannot be discounted.  There were plenty of times where character A had also been relatively quiet in-game, but had come on IRC and chatted quite a bit—and done so in such a way as to show his or her intelligence and/or trustworthiness.

Is this entirely fair, using OOC knowledge of their intelligence and trustworthiness to make the decision? No, it's not.  But it's also unavoidable.

I would also say that the way of talking that's most likely to get you positions (in my view) is to wait a while after you've joined the realm, then start making suggestions.  And I'm not talking about, "Y'know, I really think this realm would do better if it were a democracy instead of a monarchy" kind of suggestions: I'm talking about, "Y'know, we could really use a few extra nobles scouting that border" or "I've got some ideas for how we could make our food distribution more efficient" type of suggestions.

It's also hard to stress enough that it's not sufficient to talk, and to make suggestions.  If your talk is annoying, or your suggestions are either given in an irritating manner (for instance, sounding as if you think you're smarter than the Council), or are bad suggestions, you're not likely to get very far.  There are a number of people I've dealt with—some both in-game and on IRC—who have been nothing but nuisances, from failing to understand why I didn't give them positions, when they were clearly the most qualified around, to failing to grasp the basic principles of how a monarchy is supposed to operate (hint: it doesn't usually involve a lot of voting).

So: yes, talk, but don't think that the mere act of talking alone is sufficient to get you positions.

[Peri]

Something I would stress of Bedwyr's initial post is that it is important to put one's name forward to show the realm you are interested in gaining influence, but it should be done reasonably. If you try and run for every possible region or position people would frown on you and consider it power hunger. Propose yourself in the occasions that are worth it and that you have some hope to win, not everywhere and everytime.

[Foundation]

Talk to the right people, talk about the right things, and talk at the right time.  Once you can do these well, you can do anything.  Yes, you can even become Duke in a short period of time if the circumstances are right, which is, in my opinion, the most powerful position in most realms. 

[Vellos]

Use personal letters, not letters to the realm. 

As in the real world, the a well-written business letter is the path to power.

Frankly, no matter how much I like one candidate, if he makes no effort to communicate with me, and a different candidate sends me a personal message, I will be inclined to vote for the communicator. A personal message addressing my character my name and title, requesting support, asking for clarification, discussing objectives, or simply making a social call, is extremely useful.

Many players I think struggle with what to even say in such a letter. Thus, I shall offer a generic letter a new noble could send to his/her liege:

"Countess Keplerinina Lastnamia,

You have my thanks for the generous oath you have provided me, and I have acquired a unit with the revenues from my estate.
INSERT UNIT REPORT

This being accomplished, I am working in the Army of Keplerstan under Marshal Foggypants. This duty, however, leaves me some time available for other tasks. Is there any way I might be of service to you?

Sincerely,

Sir Newguy Familyname
Knight of Region A"

Establish contact. Demonstrate diligence. Ask for instructions.

[Bedwyr]

It's also hard to stress enough that it's not sufficient to talk, and to make suggestions.  If your talk is annoying, or your suggestions are either given in an irritating manner (for instance, sounding as if you think you're smarter than the Council), or are bad suggestions, you're not likely to get very far.  There are a number of people I've dealt with—some both in-game and on IRC—who have been nothing but nuisances, from failing to understand why I didn't give them positions, when they were clearly the most qualified around, to failing to grasp the basic principles of how a monarchy is supposed to operate (hint: it doesn't usually involve a lot of voting).

So: yes, talk, but don't think that the mere act of talking alone is sufficient to get you positions.

This is very important.  My point, in case it was unclear, was that you almost certainly will not get positions without talking, not that talking would get you positions.  Find out what the appropriate style for suggestions is in your realm (does the realm prefer strong statements to the realm?  A quiet word to a member of the Council to be brought before a message group?  A diffident suggestion) and go with it.

[Vellos]

And I would like to reiterate that, if you don't know enough about the game to make good suggestions (or if you're in a realm that "does everything right"), personal correspondence is still useful and important.

I'd argue that, really, in most realms, suggestions help people get positions not because of the idea's merit, but because it "signals" to "voters" (usually lords) that the person in question is involved, thinking, and interested. However, any substantive correspondence will probably succeed in demonstrating this.

So, if you don't have a bold new plan for the realm, don't fret. Still talk. Don't stay dumb crap, but do make contact.

[Indirik]

As in the real world, the a well-written business letter is the path to power.

Is this considered irony?

[Indirik]

Something I would stress of Bedwyr's initial post is that it is important to put one's name forward to show the realm you are interested in gaining influence...

I cannot stress how important it is to put your name forward for positions. You have to volunteer yourself for open offices or positions. If you don't ask for a position, you will almost certainly not be given it. Many times I have given away lordships, and even council positions, to the only person who asked for it. Not because that person was the best choice, but because they asked.

When you do ask for a position, make sure that you don't say something like "Well, if no one else wants it, I'll do it." That doesn't exactly engender confidence in your desire to do the job.

If you ask for an office/position, and are told "You're too young/new to the realm to be general/marshal/duke, come back in a few more months", this is not brush off, or an attempt to keep positions inside some small, well-entrenched clique. You can't honestly expect an unproven noble, or a brand new account, to be given a position of high trust in a realm. In three/six months, ask again! Your initial request shows your interest. Your repeated request shows your persistence and dedication. And make sure you remind them that you were told to come back. "My King, you asked me to come back in a few months when I have demonstrated my dedication and loyalty to Keplerstan. I present myself again for your consideration for admittance to the Senate, so I may help guide the realm in these troubled times."

And if you ask for, and are given a position, then make sure you actually do what's required. Many times I have seen people given Marshal positions, vice marshal positions, lordships, and even council positions, and then proceeded to do nothing to actually carry out the responsibilities of these positions. These are people who will probably never be given a second chance. Vice Marshal seems particularly vulnerable to this situation. Most Vice Marshals apparently seem to think that they aren't supposed to do anything at all unless their marshal tells them to do something. If I give someone a Vice Marshal position, and they don't do anything with it, then they certainly will not get the Marshal position.

[Vellos]

And if you ask for, and are given a position, then make sure you actually do what's required. Many times I have seen people given Marshal positions, vice marshal positions, lordships, and even council positions, and then proceeded to do nothing to actually carry out the responsibilities of these positions. These are people who will probably never be given a second chance. Vice Marshal seems particularly vulnerable to this situation. Most Vice Marshals apparently seem to think that they aren't supposed to do anything at all unless their marshal tells them to do something. If I give someone a Vice Marshal position, and they don't do anything with it, then they certainly will not get the Marshal position.

While I generally agree with Indirik, I take a slightly different operational approach.

When I appoint a Vice-Marshal, I judge his/her performance based on the Marshal's report. That is, if the Marshal tells me "Vice-Marshal Bob has been great!" that's enough for me. But if the Marshal tells me "Vice-Marshal Bob is incompetent!" that is also enough for me.

Similar end goals, different means.

[Foundation]

I find that most of the time, unless your marshal is incompetent (which is a whole other discussion), vice marshals don't get much to do mechanically, and I think that is why most end up not doing anything.  It's up to the marshals and generals to tell the VM what they expect of a good VM.

[Perth]

I find that most of the time, unless your marshal is incompetent (which is a whole other discussion), vice marshals don't get much to do mechanically, and I think that is why most end up not doing anything.  It's up to the marshals and generals to tell the VM what they expect of a good VM.

Even more so, most people, even in the army, don't even know who their VM is. Thus, it seems almost awkward and questionable when all of a sudden a regular knight starts sending out orders to the army. People second guess it since they lack a title of VM in their sig. It's like, "uh, should I actually be following this...? I think I'll just wait for orders from further up..."

[Bedwyr]

Even more so, most people, even in the army, don't even know who their VM is. Thus, it seems almost awkward and questionable when all of a sudden a regular knight starts sending out orders to the army. People second guess it since they lack a title of VM in their sig. It's like, "uh, should I actually be following this...? I think I'll just wait for orders from further up..."

Vice Marshals do have signatures when talking in the army.

[Foundation]

Even more so, most people, even in the army, don't even know who their VM is. Thus, it seems almost awkward and questionable when all of a sudden a regular knight starts sending out orders to the army. People second guess it since they lack a title of VM in their sig. It's like, "uh, should I actually be following this...? I think I'll just wait for orders from further up..."

There was a recent change (I'm gonna guess Tim did it ) so Vice Marshals get signature when they message the army, similarly guild/religion members get signatures when they message their respective group.

[Perth]

Vice Marshals do have signatures when talking in the army.

There was a recent change (I'm gonna guess Tim did it ) so Vice Marshals get signature when they message the army, similarly guild/religion members get signatures when they message their respective group.

Oh, well awesome!