Increase Family Wealth Limit

[Buffalkill]

If you want a completely open world, go play a simple play-by-email roleplaying game. BattleMaster has restrictions on what you can do because it's a different kind of game.

It would help if you read the quoted text, Anaris. I was referring to 3 specific restrictions mentioned by Velax. BM needs some structural limits, though I think you'd agree that sometimes limits don't serve their intended purpose very well or at all.

[Anaris]

It would help if you read the quoted text, Anaris. I was referring to 3 specific restrictions mentioned by Velax. BM needs some structural limits, though I think you'd agree that sometimes limits don't serve their intended purpose very well or at all.

What you quoted were the examples he gave that were not obvious absurd hyperbole. That was not sufficient for me to tell whether you were being specific or general, and there have been a number of vocal players in the past who, though they would not actually say so directly, clearly wished that BattleMaster was essentially a fully freeform roleplaying game.

And yes, sometimes the restrictions are counterproductive. However, I do not believe that any of the three quoted restrictions are among that category.

It used to be possible to loot your own regions. You know who used the ability most often (in my experience)? Griefers, who would create a new character, or even a new account, troll the realm a little with innocent-sounding messages like "Oh, what should I do? What does this do?" and loot various regions before deleting.

It is, in fact, now possible to send money to enemies through a number of different methods, and I don't think that it needs to be made any easier than it is now.

And do you know what would happen if it were possible to build a palace any time you wanted? I do, because not long ago someone found a loophole in the palace code that allowed just that. And build several dozen palaces. Why? I don't know. Maybe he thought each one would give him a separate fame point. But it's neither realistic nor sensible game mechanics to allow someone to build several dozen palaces in a short span of time.

[Buffalkill]

What you quoted were the examples he gave that were not obvious absurd hyperbole. That was not sufficient for me to tell whether you were being specific or general, and there have been a number of vocal players in the past who, though they would not actually say so directly, clearly wished that BattleMaster was essentially a fully freeform roleplaying game.

And yes, sometimes the restrictions are counterproductive. However, I do not believe that any of the three quoted restrictions are among that category.

It used to be possible to loot your own regions. You know who used the ability most often (in my experience)? Griefers, who would create a new character, or even a new account, troll the realm a little with innocent-sounding messages like "Oh, what should I do? What does this do?" and loot various regions before deleting.

It is, in fact, now possible to send money to enemies through a number of different methods, and I don't think that it needs to be made any easier than it is now.

And do you know what would happen if it were possible to build a palace any time you wanted? I do, because not long ago someone found a loophole in the palace code that allowed just that. And build several dozen palaces. Why? I don't know. Maybe he thought each one would give him a separate fame point. But it's neither realistic nor sensible game mechanics to allow someone to build several dozen palaces in a short span of time.

All fair points IMO. I didn't mean to take us off-topic. My primary argument in this thread is that the family wealth limit is an unnecessary restriction, and my secondary argument is that players' ability to make their own decisions should be preserved as much as possible.

[De-Legro]

Only about twenty characters have reached the limit. That's enough to fill up the entire Top Families page, but it's still only twenty players across the entire game. Even if they all sent all of their gold back to their families, that would not count for much of a drain. This idea that you, Tom, and perhaps others are suggesting, that there's a risk of a major 'arms race,' with gold, is baseless. It's merely an excuse fabricated to exempt a senseless position from scrutiny.

How do you know only 20 have? We only see the top 20, for all we know there are another 50 families but a handful of gold behind them.

[Anaris]

How do you know only 20 have? We only see the top 20, for all we know there are another 50 families but a handful of gold behind them.

To help this a little, there are over 75 families with more than 10k gold, and over 30 families with more than 15k gold.

[Kwanstein]

The only players relevant are those who have reached the limit. They are the ones who are claimed to potentially threaten the gold supply with an apocalyptic gold harvesting race. The idea is that, if the gold limit were done away with, they would potentially invest such huge amounts of gold into their families that the game would be negatively effected, presumably because there wouldn't be enough gold left over to wage wars.

Players with less than the limit are free under current circumstances to harvest gold. So their alleged burden right now is the same whether of whether or not the limitation is eased. They do not matter.

[Tom]

Look, guys. The original 10k limit was put there because at the time it was a crazy amount of money. Doubling it to 20k was meant to ensure it would last for years.

Times have changed. Back in the days, 100 gold was a lot.

But, just raising the number again will just move the wall and we'll hit it again sooner or later. Ergo, my counter-proposal.

[Indirik]

While it is always good to discuss new features, this particular request isn't going to be accepted implemented. If you want to discuss the general idea of removing limits, this should be done in a general discussion thread.

[Eduardo Almighty]

The problem is not the limit, but the fact that we don't have much options to use the gold. I can send the amount of gold I want, but when I need to call for family support, they will send me 100 gold... and I can lost prestige for it... or they can refuse if I never sent a coin.

I remember when I invested with Erik in every rich region of Sirion to improve ou situation when we had 120 nobles and the entire continent as our enemies. I can do it again and again.. but just it!? I don't care to save gold anymore with the family because it's almost useless. Instead, I would like to have an option to receive more from my family in times of need... or use this gold to train an Infiltrator... or to build temples. Do it just with the family support is impossible. Something like "Hey, I'm young and I want to be Infiltrator... why not ask to my family if a parent of mine in a higher position can sponsor my visits to the academy" or "I want to build a temple level 10... why wait for 4 weeks if my family already have enough to pay for it!?"

Now, they don't care if you're a Duke, they will send the same 100 gold to you as if you are just a mere Knight.

[Tom]

Now, they don't care if you're a Duke, they will send the same 100 gold to you as if you are just a mere Knight.

That's because your family is not a bank and will never be. I'd rather remove family wealth entirely than make it a bank.

[Penchant]

That's because your family is not a bank and will never be. I'd rather remove family wealth entirely than make it a bank.

A family paying to have a member become a master at something seems like its realistic. A really rich family paying for a temple to be built but with the family name being published at minimum upon construction or some other mark of the family paying seems realistic. A rich family funding a younger family member (under 40 for instance) when they don't have an estate or its providing a really small amount  for a little while seems reasonable/realistic. If the family is paying for things (or giving limited amounts a week when in need) it's not acting as a bank to instantly make a family member rich, so these three suggestions seem good albeit off topic from the feature request.

How do you know only 20 have? We only see the top 20, for all we know there are another 50 families but a handful of gold behind them.

Because Kwanstein has been stating false information. The top 20 for wealth are not all maxed out.

[De-Legro]

A family paying to have a member become a master at something seems like its realistic. A really rich family paying for a temple to be built but with the family name being published at minimum upon construction or some other mark of the family paying seems realistic. A rich family funding a younger family member (under 40 for instance) when they don't have an estate or its providing a really small amount  for a little while seems reasonable/realistic.

As people have pointed out it is trivial to accumulate masses of family gold right now. Make it possible to send large amounts of gold for training and all we will do is eliminate the social interaction currently required to secure a training sponsor that ISN'T your own family. It might be realistic, but does it actually help the balance or outcomes for the game?

[Kwanstein]

Because Kwanstein has been stating false information. The top 20 for wealth are not all maxed out.

I wasn't about to quibble over peanuts.

[Velax]

I wasn't about to quibble over peanuts.

And yet it was your entire point. So this change should be made to accommodate the four people who've reached the cap?

[De-Legro]

And yet it was your entire point. So this change should be made to accommodate the four people who've reached the cap?

To be fair there are a few others that are but a handful of gold away.