Atamara Update?

[jaune]

The time frame our army to move on the defending position when CE appears, doesnt allow waiting Too often we missed turn or 2 and CE were sitting Hawthorne. First time i heard we are not allowed to enter your lands was when we were already in Melias from my general that Lyoness General was jumping up and down in anger.

Remember, i never signed that silly treaty, i had impression there was nothing changed. I think its pretty much miscommunication beteween the Queenie and I... + that i thought some of the messages Himoura sent i thought was sent by your Queen, which made me think she has lost her mind and dont read my messages at all.

-jaune

[Eirikr]

My point was that you didn't hear permission, either. Just silence, right? Which is neither allowance or denial. We're on the same page here; it makes sense not to retreat tactically... and I'll leave it there for now.

I did, however, not realize you hadn't signed the treaty (nor has the CE) until your General pointed it out... in which case, the last I'd been told, both sides were waiting it out for us to come to an acceptable agreement. (Guess that temporary ceasefire broke down, too?) If that were true, then neither Darka nor the CE should have been moving into Lyonesse... and Darka moved in first anyway.

Miscommunication all around!

+ that i thought some of the messages Himoura sent i thought was sent by your Queen, which made me think she has lost her mind and dont read my messages at all.

I get confused, too... and others in our realm. I can't really blame ya!

[jaune]

Like said, i had informed your queen we move in, we had just been there as well week ago, when CE first appeared on the border, they went back and we went back... they came back and we came back and suddenly it was an issue. I politly asked 2 times Lyoness troops to move away frmo Melias to avoid unwanted casualties, when those were ignored, i told we have to switch murderous settings to not confuse our army, these all messages were sent to everybody in Melias and to your Queen.

As reply to that, Melias Count informed he will co-operate with CE and more Lyoness troops moved in while your Queen lowered relations with us... Very little was left for me to do.

After all, prolly only one getting advantage to this is CE... atlest in short term. Lyoness will be burnt to the ground. In the long run, this might turn bad for Darka... but atleast we have something to do while CE refits

[GoldPanda]

Also you've just described blackmail... "We know you treasure XYZ, so if you don't obey, we'll hurt XYZ." It might work, but it only ever builds resent. We thought Darka would have enough sense to realize that wasn't going to work.

I think that's extortion, actually.

black·mail
noun
1. the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person.

"Pay me 1000 gold, sir, or I will reveal to all the other nobles that you have intimate relations with goats!"

ex·tor·tion
noun
1. the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats.

"That's a nice realm you've got there. It would be a shame if SOMEONE BURNT IT TO THE GROUND."

[Eirikr]

I think that's extortion, actually.

black·mail
noun
1. the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person.

ex·tor·tion
noun
1. the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats.

10 points to you. I couldn't find the right word, but I knew it was off. Though, in common use, blackmail is no longer exclusively monetary, no?

In other news: DARKA! STOP WOUNDING ME!

[jaune]

This can be turned to otherway around too:
Lyoness: Sign this treaty or we start to co-operate with CE (and treaty was already like that)
Darka: Edit treaty or we will assume you co-operate with CE

-Jaune

[Eirikr]

It's like you're not reading my points: Nobody in Lyonesse saw that discussion other than the Queen. Of course, she does have final say, but if you'd taken the hit this time and asked Ravendon to figure out what was up with the treaty and why there was no negotiation, we wouldn't likely be in this situation.

Also, you seem to keep ignoring that while you believe it to benefit CE more (and my gut says you're right too), the CE really thought it was the end of the war for them with no victor.

[Penchant]

It's like you're not reading my points: Nobody in Lyonesse saw that discussion other than the Queen. Of course, she does have final say, but if you'd taken the hit this time and asked Ravendon to figure out what was up with the treaty and why there was no negotiation, we wouldn't likely be in this situation.

Also, you seem to keep ignoring that while you believe it to benefit CE more (and my gut says you're right too), the CE really thought it was the end of the war for them with no victor.

AFAIK, it was fair and equal for both sides but CE was more likely to take advantage of it. (Wishes the treaty was public info (it slightly is as a bunch of different foreigners know about it) as we could have a real discussion)

[jaune]

Heh, terms for both realms were equal, but result would be far from equal.

But for now, situation doesnt look so bad for Darka, we got decent amount of gold from Lyoness regions and we dont have to dodge their troops anymore. I doubt they are able to pull out big enough army to be real threat to Darka and southern part of Lyoness will get burnt. Who knows Darka might take region or 2.

-jaune

[Eirikr]

AFAIK, it was fair and equal for both sides but CE was more likely to take advantage of it. (Wishes the treaty was public info (it slightly is as a bunch of different foreigners know about it) as we could have a real discussion)

I'd fetch it for you, but I'm wounded... I don't think there's any issue with posting it since it's not exactly hidden info, nor does it really serve as intelligence. Basically, it says that neither side will fight in Lyonesse, allowing passage rights to whomever asked first. The other must wait in their borders, granting 5 days to traverse Lyonesse freely. Both sides (and Lyonesse) must be informed of any passage as well.

This means the CE gets a choke point at Anost (or whatever they have worked out with Silnaria and Eston) and Darka would deal with three possible border entry points. I'll let you do any applicable strategizing about counters or practical movements, but I'll agree the terms are equal yet not fair.

[jaune]

And CE could do hit & run type of strikes and we could not hit back while they hide at Lyoness lands. Hit region and move back to Lyoness lands... Hit another region, move back to Lyoness lands... and then walk back to CE and we cant even chase them until 5 days have passed and they have refitted and build up defences on their border. Then we stare them 5 days, and move back to our own lands for refit...

-Jaune

[Eirikr]

And CE could do hit & run type of strikes and we could not hit back while they hide at Lyoness lands. Hit region and move back to Lyoness lands... Hit another region, move back to Lyoness lands... and then walk back to CE and we cant even chase them until 5 days have passed and they have refitted and build up defences on their border. Then we stare them 5 days, and move back to our own lands for refit...

-Jaune

I wouldn't have allowed that; you go in and you come out when you're done. It's travel, not guerrilla warfare.

[jaune]

Yes yes, as you didnt allow them to use your lands when they last time attacked

Either way, deal was not accepted.

Now things are much more intresting than with the deal, better? Not sure yet, more intresting, definately!

[Penchant]

I'd fetch it for you, but I'm wounded... I don't think there's any issue with posting it since it's not exactly hidden info, nor does it really serve as intelligence. Basically, it says that neither side will fight in Lyonesse, allowing passage rights to whomever asked first. The other must wait in their borders, granting 5 days to traverse Lyonesse freely. Both sides (and Lyonesse) must be informed of any passage as well.

This means the CE gets a choke point at Anost (or whatever they have worked out with Silnaria and Eston) and Darka would deal with three possible border entry points. I'll let you do any applicable strategizing about counters or practical movements, but I'll agree the terms are equal yet not fair.

I already knew the jist of the terms but as I am involved myself I don't know the importance of keeping it hidden. Now that its out, the obvious thing for Darka to do IMO is just go to Eston and have battles there instead of their land. There is no reason Darka can't be more aggressive.

[Eirikr]

Yes yes, as you didnt allow them to use your lands when they last time attacked

Last time they attacked is when I made it an issue, as far as I know. Sorry I can't enforce a policy I didn't know I was going to create.

I already knew the jist of the terms but as I am involved myself I don't know the importance of keeping it hidden. Now that its out, the obvious thing for Darka to do IMO is just go to Eston and have battles there instead of their land. There is no reason Darka can't be more aggressive.

Until, you know, Eston does the same thing Lyonesse tried to do.