BattleMaster > Magistrates Case Archive

Strategic secession of Iato

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Anaris:

--- Quote from: Chénier on November 06, 2013, 08:48:22 PM ---Where is it "explicitly" permitted, exactly?

--- End quote ---

Word of Tom.


--- Quote ---And this secession does allow precisely that: recruitment on the enemy capital's doorstep.

--- End quote ---

By one guy. With practically no income, and a city that can barely support any infrastructure. Yeah, that's unbalancing.

mbeal44:
Sorry my reply took so long...I didnt even think for one second that this thing would spill over into RL.  Are you guys SERIOUS????  This has been IG for many, many months!  Marec was a part of IVF from the start.  IG his character and G Chenier both fought for control of the realm and throughout the last x amount of months that has been the IG storyline.  The battle has gone back and forth and IG Marec should have waited for a more diplomatic opportunity but chose to leave when he did.

if the dev team feel I am taking advantage of some obscure rule then fine, lets play another route.  I am not here to corrupt the rules and I am not here to spoil your game

IG damn right he is going to wage war against Enweil...look at the history.  Damn right he is going to defend his regions from Nothoi, they have refused his legitimacy and burned/raped through his lands.  OOC strategy?  Bollocks!  IG common sense? ABSOLUTELY!

Moderator note: edited out insults, they are not relevant to the case.

Geronus:

--- Quote from: Anaris on November 06, 2013, 08:49:39 PM ---By one guy. With practically no income, and a city that can barely support any infrastructure. Yeah, that's unbalancing.

--- End quote ---

Did you secede an entire city just to create a realm for one single noble? Or are others going to be joining him? I find it next to impossible to believe that it's going to remain one guy for the rest of the war, that no other noble in Riombara has any plans to join, so this argument can really be dropped unless that is in fact the case.

Frankly, what I see here is a circumstance where the action, whatever its intent, does in fact create a strategic advantage. It might be small now, but it's not the degree of advantage that concerns me. If we get into questions of degree we'll be arguing from now until next year. The fact is, it does benefit Riombara at Enweil's expense. Having been in Riombara as recently as a year ago, I am well aware that there has been a plan in the works to recreate IVF for a long time now, but nothing says that couldn't be done after the war with Enweil was concluded. To me intent is less important than the result. Riombara has created a client state that vastly shortens the supply line to the front lines for any and all nobles that eventually join the new realm. Whether that's a horde or a handful and whether they have decent infrastructure at first or not doesn't really matter much to me; I'm more concerned that it happened at all, particularly since both noble population and infrastructure are subject to improvement as time goes on. The advantage now exists and it can only grow larger unless Enweil is able to reconquer the city relatively quickly.

I don't like the idea of judging on intent in this case because it's too easy to manipulate. If you know what the parameters are, you simply invent an intent to disguise the objective of gaining a strategic advantage. I know for a fact that's not what happened here, but a ruling to the effect that the intent absolves the perpetrator of any infraction simply opens the door to future abuse, as Chenier has pointed out. Riombara could easily have waited to take this step, and I believe that they should have.

De-Legro:

--- Quote from: Naidraug on November 06, 2013, 11:06:37 PM ---Anaris, you seem to forget that this one guy won't be alone for long. After all the realm is being created for a few nobles.

Even if only 4 more nobles join now, Riombara has 7 other cities and a lot of gold and food they can provide for the 5 nobles.

They can fund 2-3 RCs on the city of Iato, and these nobles for the war.

These nobles can make an attack on Enweill and Nothoi quicker, causing the same mayhem Nothoi was causing on Riombara, with faster recruitment, without the need to go all the way to the other side of the map to get fresh units.

This does give them strategic advantage.


And please mbeal44 keep it civil.

--- End quote ---

If that was the intent, then WHY seceded now. We aren't talking about rookie players here. They would have been aware that if they had these future realm members swear oaths to the city before, they would have all nicely been transferred over in one go. Go one further Rio could have created a Duchy out of the city and made sure some regions swore oaths to it to at least provide some sort of food and income while the city repairs, as well as FUNCTIONAL RC's that don't rely on the city stats improving.

Chenier:
The arguments that there is only one guy are worthless. It equates to saying that the move that was done in the past (secession) can have been legal then, and then become illegal in the future (ex: a week) if certain criteria are met (nobles join it and infrastructure if funded). Something cannot be legal when it happens and become illegal afterwards.

The secession creates the potential to recruit closer to the enemy, and that is what matters.

Intent is bullocks, because you can't read minds. Intent is hearsay and propaganda. Intent cannot be proved. And no it would not be simple to code, and you know it. Friendly with parent realm cannot be coded, and any attempt would be easy to game. Proximity is relative and arbitrary. Heck, even war would be a poor filter, because that can be gamed as well by having troops loot while neutral, or by giving realms the ability to declare war on neighbors they know will split in order to turn planned splits into issues. This is not something a code can judge on.

The secession wasn't built to eternally have a single noble, nor a single region, nor little infrastructure. It wants to fight Enweil. It will get more nobles. It will attempt to annex Enweilian regions. It will have a much easier time with the logistics of it. The purpose of it existing is to be able to take over Enweil's territory, and it will be able to do so a lot easier by being closer than by having the capital forever away.

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