Author Topic: Great Dwilight War, Pt. 2: The Southern League vs. Luria Nova  (Read 35727 times)

Penchant

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Indeed, I get the vanity title, and can wash off all responsbilities for anything that goes wrong! Hurray!
I wouldn't say you have no responsibility, as it's been mentioned more than once by people of D'hara's suffered military competence due to the lack of a general. (The responsibility is proving D'hara's military can be run fine without a military leader.)
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OFaolain

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I wouldn't say you have no responsibility, as it's been mentioned more than once by people of D'hara's suffered military competence due to the lack of a general. (The responsibility is proving D'hara's military can be run fine without a military leader.)
And if there's one thing the people of D'hara can't stand, it's military competence. :P
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Galvez

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No one can stand military incompetence.
"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar

Zakilevo

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No one can stand military incompetence.

It makes everyone feel miserable.

Indirik

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Especially when you misread the witty quip.
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Penchant

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And if there's one thing the people of D'hara can't stand, it's military competence. :P
Sounds about right to me.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Chenier

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I offered to take on the judge position instead, but the current judge didn't like the idea very much.

I still believe that a general is just a vanity title anyways. It comes with nearly no buttons to push. And all military activity is discussed in message groups or guilds. The only advantages of a general, the peer-to-peer channel, is thus negated by this.

If people are unsatisfied with the performances of the military, I doubt they would be any more satisfied if you took the same marshals and named one of them as general.
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Penchant

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I offered to take on the judge position instead, but the current judge didn't like the idea very much.

I still believe that a general is just a vanity title anyways. It comes with nearly no buttons to push. And all military activity is discussed in message groups or guilds. The only advantages of a general, the peer-to-peer channel, is thus negated by this.

If people are unsatisfied with the performances of the military, I doubt they would be any more satisfied if you took the same marshals and named one of them as general.
I am against wasting any council positions, I think 1 or 2 official titles with no button pushing pore should be allowed.

The general has more advantages than just communication to message groups. He receives an overview of the armies, can disband militia, transfer militia to nobles, and most importantly is his authority.

Official power over the armies allows the general to create strategies for wars with armies doing different things, working towards that strategy if there are enough nobles for two offensive armies. Still the general can do strategy with one army but it's less complex. The marshals job is to take care of the details with things like line settings and formations.

As to  the military performance not increasing if there is a general vs just the marshals, I need to go to bed so I am going to keep it short and say I am in both D'hara's military council and Carelia's, as well as in the realm of Arcaea so I know that general makes a big difference.
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Chenier

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I am against wasting any council positions, I think 1 or 2 official titles with no button pushing pore should be allowed.

The general has more advantages than just communication to message groups. He receives an overview of the armies, can disband militia, transfer militia to nobles, and most importantly is his authority.

Official power over the armies allows the general to create strategies for wars with armies doing different things, working towards that strategy if there are enough nobles for two offensive armies. Still the general can do strategy with one army but it's less complex. The marshals job is to take care of the details with things like line settings and formations.

As to  the military performance not increasing if there is a general vs just the marshals, I need to go to bed so I am going to keep it short and say I am in both D'hara's military council and Carelia's, as well as in the realm of Arcaea so I know that general makes a big difference.

Overview of the armies: we never had more than 1 army attacking, our second army was always destined for homeland defense, mostly against rogues (no need for coordination), and mostly (historically) filled with slackers. The marshal of the main army had all that he needed.

disband militia: That can be done upon request, and can also be done by the lord. It's rarely a thing that needs to be done, and it's rarely anyone else than an overburdened lord who will do it.

assign militia: that can also be done upon request, but doing so cost money (therefore not really any more effective than recruiting) and the units we want are often not available for assignment.

official power over the armies: none has it more than the marshal. If there's just one army going abroad, then there's really no point in having someone tell the marshal what to do and making him a rubber-stamper.

The only times where the general powers can really be useful are in the case of a rebellion. Kinda makes sense that the monarch gets a special loyalty bonus when civil war strikes, no?

As for military performance, it's all about involvement. You need someone to involve himself fully. Maybe in Carelia, that's the general. In Enweil, for a long time (and successful enough streak), that was me as marshal (before I went on vacation and then everything went irreparably downhill). It's all about the dynamics of the realm. In Enweil, Nicolas didn't care one bit for the general, they were outright hostile to each other, and so he assumed full sovereignty over the forces he commanded. He basically was the general. In D'Hara, the dynamics aren't the same. The main marshal is reluctant to do so. He wants the comfort of the title or of someone assuming the title. Maybe it would help D'Hara's military performances if we were to have an active general. But that's just player dynamics. It's not necessary in all realms. And would D'Hara's republican nature even support the traditional authoritative general type? Everyone always wants to have their say in everything. Too much initiative, by anyone over anything, is usually frowned at by someone somewhere. If we had a general who cared more to involve himself, but would still be accountable either to the military table, the house of lords, and/or the prime minister, are we really any better off?
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Indirik

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The general's position can be anywhere from symbolic to extremely powerful. The difference lays in the philosophy and support given by the realm. Some realms invest great powers in the general, some don't. And some generals themselves play either way.

This is no different than rulers in republics who claim that they can't do anything without a vote in the council. Fontan's ruler used to claim that he had no power, and that all he did was push buttons as directed by the council. And that he had no responsibilities internal to the realm. i.e. that he was a functionary who's only responsibility was foreign policy and relations.

Compare this to judges who do nothing except as directed by the ruler. Sure they have lots of game mechanics power, but the realm/players dictate that the judge exists only to rubber stamp the ruler's declarations.

Any government position is this way. They have the power and authority that the players in the realm give them. Anyone who thinks otherwise will find themselves either a completely ineffectual bench warmer, or quickly protested out of office.
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Chenier

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The general's position can be anywhere from symbolic to extremely powerful. The difference lays in the philosophy and support given by the realm. Some realms invest great powers in the general, some don't. And some generals themselves play either way.

This is no different than rulers in republics who claim that they can't do anything without a vote in the council. Fontan's ruler used to claim that he had no power, and that all he did was push buttons as directed by the council. And that he had no responsibilities internal to the realm. i.e. that he was a functionary who's only responsibility was foreign policy and relations.

Compare this to judges who do nothing except as directed by the ruler. Sure they have lots of game mechanics power, but the realm/players dictate that the judge exists only to rubber stamp the ruler's declarations.

Any government position is this way. They have the power and authority that the players in the realm give them. Anyone who thinks otherwise will find themselves either a completely ineffectual bench warmer, or quickly protested out of office.

True, but rulers and judges wield actual and unquestionable power. As do bankers, now that they can toy with regions' warehouses. The button-smashing powers of the general exist, but are considerably limited in scope.
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Penchant

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True, but rulers and judges wield actual and unquestionable power. As do bankers, now that they can toy with regions' warehouses. The button-smashing powers of the general exist, but are considerably limited in scope.
With bankers, they only have as much power as given because each lord has to choose to give access, and thus it's power surrendered, not simply control.
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Tandaros

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I offered to take on the judge position instead, but the current judge didn't like the idea very much.

I still believe that a general is just a vanity title anyways. It comes with nearly no buttons to push. And all military activity is discussed in message groups or guilds. The only advantages of a general, the peer-to-peer channel, is thus negated by this.

If people are unsatisfied with the performances of the military, I doubt they would be any more satisfied if you took the same marshals and named one of them as general.

As you know Chenier, I disagree 100%, and don't appreciate the insult packed in.

JeVondair

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A generals power/effectiveness is measured purely in the speed and accuracy by which his/her orders are obeyed. D'Hara's attitude in this regard is infamously nonchalant. In fact, we'eve often seen our Prime Ministers take over-all military command.

Could the General seat be more valuable? Yes. Is it? No.
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Zakilevo

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A generals power/effectiveness is measured purely in the speed and accuracy by which his/her orders are obeyed. D'Hara's attitude in this regard is infamously nonchalant. In fact, we'eve often seen our Prime Ministers take over-all military command.

Could the General seat be more valuable? Yes. Is it? No.

A horrible place to be a general of it seems. I've actually never experienced a realm where a ruler takes over completely but I can see how stressful it would be to deal with that.