Infiltrator class, is it worth it?

[vonGenf]

I saw great Infiltrators in the past, in the last times all I saw are ridiculous attempts from unexperencied Infiltrators just to get caught and then deported/executed.

They must have not been so great if you saw them.

[Eduardo Almighty]

I saw them because my Judge was better than them. Nothing like wait for the turn change 3am against someone waiting for the same, just to discover who will be the lucky one to press the button in the first seconds. Or deport more than five times two of the best Infiltrators from Fontan. Or see one of them losing the greatest bounty in the game (ever) because of greedy. And considering that Erik was wounded just one time and only after the old age as a Priest, yes... I saw them because Erik was better than them.

That was the kind of Infiltrator I miss... and I'm discovering how boring is to create an Infiltrator like this.

[Tom]

I'm training for a long time, just to reach 40/40 in Swordfight and Infiltration. It's a hard work and demands a lot of gold.

Partially because you are going about it in a way that was not intended to be the way.

One thing that helps to dramatically shorten these times is to, you know, turn a character who is already good at swordfighting into an infiltrator instead of starting from the ground up. Then it's just infiltration skill you need to train.

And rogue regions are NOT intended as infiltration training areas, which is why stealing them is NOT AT ALL easier than any other regions. And potentially worse, because rogue has no judge to set you free early.

[Velax]

It doesn't matter how you train your skill if you're still virtually useless as an "expert". In recent days I tried twice to enter an enemy region. Not steal from it, not assassinate anyone, just enter the region. Both times I was caught. With 80+% skill. And this has been an ongoing issue the entire Far East war. I've been caught more times entering enemy regions than actually taking Infil actions.

[vonGenf]

My own character has never been caught by just entering a region. Masbe you're unlucky, but maybe you do very risky things. It is possible to play it safe.

[Indirik]

Those border ninjas must be almost as bad-ass as the tax ninjas. I think you'll find that they are mostly bluster, and no action, though. Just keep a bodyguard or two around, and they won't bother you. ;)

[Eduardo Almighty]

Partially because you are going about it in a way that was not intended to be the way.

One thing that helps to dramatically shorten these times is to, you know, turn a character who is already good at swordfighting into an infiltrator instead of starting from the ground up. Then it's just infiltration skill you need to train.

I received a tip from Tom!? That's not something you see everyday  ;D

And I know... I even know that is a good way to start with an Adventurer to have the swordfight. However, for the entire time I used the character as a normal warrior, he won just 10% of swordfight... then, in this case was best to train at the academy. Erik used to have 90% just fighting at the battlefield, but he have years and years and and hundreds of battles.

And rogue regions are NOT intended as infiltration training areas, which is why stealing them is NOT AT ALL easier than any other regions. And potentially worse, because rogue has no judge to set you free early.

Two sides... I have a rogue region, a townsland, at my door. And I prefer to steal gold there to continue training, even being arrested, that try it with low numbers in a region with a Judge... the Judge will not release me... he will ban and deport me. Then, yes, I'm following the hard way...

I just hope to enjoy it a little before being beheaded :)

[De-Legro]

It doesn't matter how you train your skill if you're still virtually useless as an "expert". In recent days I tried twice to enter an enemy region. Not steal from it, not assassinate anyone, just enter the region. Both times I was caught. With 80+% skill. And this has been an ongoing issue the entire Far East war. I've been caught more times entering enemy regions than actually taking Infil actions.

How many nobles? Where they doing police work? At that skill level I was normally able to enter capitals without too much risk, the biggest risk was always if characters saw me coming and where able to prepare.

[Revan]

Regarding the poll, I plumped for diplomat. Combine it with being a priest and let preaching boost your oratory skill sky high. Then, once you are an expert, enjoy having the power to restore a regions loyalty with jut a few words. Or likewise, to incite rebellion in a region just as easily. It can be a lot of fun :-)

[Tom]

How many nobles? Where they doing police work?

Bingo. Inspiring infiltrators seem to forget that their chances are not static. If you steal from the same region all the time, they will start to wise up. If someone ELSE has been stealing (or doing other infiltrator actions) recently, they will be alarmed. And enemy nobles can also work up the police force and make them more alert.

There's a lot of variables in this whole thing, it's not just "roll 2d6".

[Velax]

How many nobles? Where they doing police work?

It varies. Sometimes there are nobles. Sometimes there are none.

[anoobowner]

One of my characters is this world traveler who has served in every crazy scheme and in every weird capacity at some point, and for a time he served as an infiltrator as well.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way; you become an infiltrator not for slight optimization on your character's abilities or because you gain something totally useful, but because it's just really risky and stupid and fun. I think for my character, it really fit him for a time because he is this insane guy who travels everywhere and does every cracked-out scheme he can. The only reason he stopped is because it drew a lot of unwanted attention to him if he ever changed realms, and he wanted to try out other things.

I say you just go for it for a while and see how much you like it. I think you should think 'is this fun' instead of 'does this really make sense statistically'.

[Eirikr]

One of my characters is this world traveler who has served in every crazy scheme and in every weird capacity at some point, and for a time he served as an infiltrator as well.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way; you become an infiltrator not for slight optimization on your character's abilities or because you gain something totally useful, but because it's just really risky and stupid and fun. I think for my character, it really fit him for a time because he is this insane guy who travels everywhere and does every cracked-out scheme he can. The only reason he stopped is because it drew a lot of unwanted attention to him if he ever changed realms, and he wanted to try out other things.

I say you just go for it for a while and see how much you like it. I think you should think 'is this fun' instead of 'does this really make sense statistically'.

That's pretty much the right idea... I had an infil that became infamous within a few months of moving to Beluaterra and got a freakin' sweet nickname in the end. He got executed and is now a permanent part of the history of Melhed.

[Bendix]

There's a lot of variables in this whole thing, it's not just "roll 2d6".

Tom,

It might be beneficial to have some of these vagaries of the game mechanics explained a little better somewhere. I get totally that not knowing exactly how the system works is part of the fun, and I agree with that, but I think for a lot of newer players it can be daunting. It can look like there isn't much going on in the game. There actually is, but you just can't see it. Which is cool.

I feel like this may have something to do with the shrinking player base.

I personally have no problem with the more mysterious aspects of Battlemaster- I feel it reinforces more roleplaying. But I think a lot of gamers, particularly younger people, might relate to their characters better through concrete information about the game mechanics. The kids who are bored with WoW and seek a real interaction in BM, but find themselves puzzled right out of the game when they don't know anything about their characters. Just a bit of more explicit information might help newer players to stay engaged.

This is not to criticize. Its just simply a hypothesis and potential solution. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Eldargard]

I agree that the line between the known and unknown could be adjusted a bit in some cases. For example, I think that it should be common knowledge that noble count, police activity, whatever, whatever affect ones chance of successfully pulling off an infiltrator action while details like the formulas used should remain hidden. As I see it, if a trained infiltrator would know it, then the information should be available to the player base. Same thing for other classes. I have never been a big fan of depending on players to know what their characters know. When RPing, it is easy for there to be a disconnect in such matters...