Wounds worsening or mechanics harassing players.

[Stue (DC)]

With wounds improving and worsening three times (!), effectively removing character from the game for the week's time, I have to ask the public what is the whole point of such "feature".

Logging once to see that wounds worsened, next time it improved, than worsened again, and three times in such a manner. Is that an ultimate test of player's patience  ?

[Anaris]

How old is the character?

Old characters, by design, are more likely to have their wounds worsen, and less likely to have them improve, until they have been wounded for quite some time.

This is specifically intended to encourage players to retire older characters and make room for new ones.

[Stue (DC)]

i always believed it is more human to kill character than to harass it that way, pushing patience to the very limits.

if i have in-game reasons to retain some character, i will retain it, otherwise it makes no sense to play at all.

such a concept is similar in some other materializations and in my humble opinion, it counters basic logics of playing - formally, we have multitude of choices, but in reality we are heavily pushed to make one and one only choice. it really degrades playability - are we allowed to create some small stories with our puppets, with all limits which anyhow exist, or we, players are puppets of game mechanics? 

[Penchant]

i always believed it is more human to kill character than to harass it that way, pushing patience to the very limits.

if i have in-game reasons to retain some character, i will retain it, otherwise it makes no sense to play at all.

such a concept is similar in some other materializations and in my humble opinion, it counters basic logics of playing - formally, we have multitude of choices, but in reality we are heavily pushed to make one and one only choice. it really degrades playability - are we allowed to create some small stories with our puppets, with all limits which anyhow exist, or we, players are puppets of game mechanics? 

Certain things are encouraged for good reasons. In Atamara there are rulers who have had the same ruler for many years such that even if they autopaused due to inactivity as soon as they came back they were made ruler again. The same rulers in many of the realms causes stagnated politics which can result in realms becoming extremely boring as nothing changes. Dukes can not removed and many who are inactive will log in once a week just to keep their position which results in stagnation as they are holding a valuable powerful position and not even playing. I would bet most retire their old characters and make new nobles in realms they haven't been in instead of just replacing their old character will have a much more fun time.

They do understand that there are nobles that while old are still doing things and making the game a better place which is why its just encouraging retiring old characters and not automatic death after a certain age.

[pcw27]

Certain things are encouraged for good reasons. In Atamara there are rulers who have had the same ruler for many years such that even if they autopaused due to inactivity as soon as they came back they were made ruler again. The same rulers in many of the realms causes stagnated politics which can result in realms becoming extremely boring as nothing changes. Dukes can not removed and many who are inactive will log in once a week just to keep their position which results in stagnation as they are holding a valuable powerful position and not even playing. I would bet most retire their old characters and make new nobles in realms they haven't been in instead of just replacing their old character will have a much more fun time.

They do understand that there are nobles that while old are still doing things and making the game a better place which is why its just encouraging retiring old characters and not automatic death after a certain age.

But doesn't that point out the problem with the current system? Do nothing dukes aren't going to get seriously wounded. Inactive older characters get off Scott free while active ones who are still doing things in game get punished with a very frustrating feature.

What if they just made it roll a fixed period you'll be wounded for? Would that hurt the balance so much? The other players will still have no idea when the character will be back, but the player of the wounded character can just note the time and not have to log in to check every day. I agree that this frustrating to keep logging in to find they're still wounded, or more wounded, or to see them starting to recover only to get worse again. I'd rather just see "you'll be able to move again in 6 days".

We can also make it a rule that you can't relay this information should you have another character in the same game world.

[Velax]

But doesn't that point out the problem with the current system? Do nothing dukes aren't going to get seriously wounded. Inactive older characters get off Scott free while active ones who are still doing things in game get punished with a very frustrating feature.

This is a really good point.

[Bendix]

I think it's an attempt at some level of realism. I mean, realistically speaking, even a healthy, young human being suffering a wound could be put out of commission for months or years, or suffer from permanent injury. You never hear about Nobles losing limbs. In most respects, characters in BM have it comparatively easy, except when it comes to the slow torment of worsening wounds.

That being said, I've always thought that mortality in this game was not common enough, and that time spent suffering wounds was too common. Wounds just become an annoyance; death has actual meaning. It's hard to argue about whether or not one is brave when the stakes are so low.

I say, more death, less injury. Especially from assassins. I don't think I've ever seen an actual successful assassination attempt in the entire game. I'd prefer not to imagine a fantasy world where every assassin is spectacularly incompetent.

[Chenier]

But doesn't that point out the problem with the current system? Do nothing dukes aren't going to get seriously wounded. Inactive older characters get off Scott free while active ones who are still doing things in game get punished with a very frustrating feature.

What if they just made it roll a fixed period you'll be wounded for? Would that hurt the balance so much? The other players will still have no idea when the character will be back, but the player of the wounded character can just note the time and not have to log in to check every day. I agree that this frustrating to keep logging in to find they're still wounded, or more wounded, or to see them starting to recover only to get worse again. I'd rather just see "you'll be able to move again in 6 days".

We can also make it a rule that you can't relay this information should you have another character in the same game world.

I've always been of the opinion that the game is too rewarding to those who play it safe and too harsh on those who take risks to live things up.

[pcw27]

It would be nice if the system tended more towards you staying lightly wounded for longer, or maybe being immobilized while lightly wounded but still able to send messages.

[D`Este]

Or at least be able to read messages while wounded, gives something to do...

[pcw27]

Yeah maybe adjust it so severely wounded gets only some messages, and wounded gets all messages.

[Stabbity]

I think it's an attempt at some level of realism. I mean, realistically speaking, even a healthy, young human being suffering a wound could be put out of commission for months or years, or suffer from permanent injury. You never hear about Nobles losing limbs. In most respects, characters in BM have it comparatively easy, except when it comes to the slow torment of worsening wounds.

That being said, I've always thought that mortality in this game was not common enough, and that time spent suffering wounds was too common. Wounds just become an annoyance; death has actual meaning. It's hard to argue about whether or not one is brave when the stakes are so low.

I say, more death, less injury. Especially from assassins. I don't think I've ever seen an actual successful assassination attempt in the entire game. I'd prefer not to imagine a fantasy world where every assassin is spectacularly incompetent.

My characters write it off as the miracle of "modern" medicine :p

[Eirikr]

I say, more death, less injury. Especially from assassins. I don't think I've ever seen an actual successful assassination attempt in the entire game. I'd prefer not to imagine a fantasy world where every assassin is spectacularly incompetent.

I agree with everything you said, ergo my mortality feature request some time ago... but I wanted to point out that "successful" assassination attempts have been confirmed to be impossible. It's not even in the code to cause someone to die as a result of infiltrator action. In fact, "assassination" has been called a misnomer propagated by players. I'm too lazy to find any one of the several threads where this was analyzed, but most of the infiltrator text says nothing about killing, only about wounding or crippling. It was never intended for infiltrators to be assassins; if I remember right, Tom had explained that outright murder (duels to the death at least give the other guy a shot and militia is disposable) would be beneath a noble, but a little handicapping to get ahead is a-ok.

So think of it this way: It's a fantasy world where there really are no assassins, just a bunch of normally respectable nobles willing to pick up the medieval equivalent of a lead pipe to kneecap the competition.

All that said, I don't necessarily buy that explanation, either. In my mind, it should either be full-on assassination with weighted chances to fail, wound (varying degrees), or kill... or nothing at all. If the intent of an infiltrator was to be a spy, playing the game of intrigue and espionage, give him options to gain information and sabotage things, not attack people.

[pcw27]

There was talk of revamping the infiltrators as spymasters and organizers of uprisings. I don't know what came of it.

[Chenier]

There was talk of revamping the infiltrators as spymasters and organizers of uprisings. I don't know what came of it.

Several people, myself included, argued that this would be a good way of recycling the subclass, given how the reforms made to it have rendred it... handicapped.

I think think the dev team ever really commented on the idea, though.