Decay of infrastructure from lack of population

[Galvez]

If you have a large manor, but are only utilising a few rooms, then without a regular and extensive maintenance program it is likely those rooms will fall into disrepair. The damage may be so significant that it would cause structural damage to the rest of the building. If you MUST have a RP reason for something that is place for game balance reasons, then perhaps something along those lines will suit. Building and Maintenance are two very different task by the way. Building is a finite task, after which the work force can be tasked to other jobs. Maintenance is ongoing. It is quite plausible to be able to build something and then find you cannot spare the required workforce to maintain it.

How long does it take for a building to decay, in-game probable two seasons, half a year. It can be longer, it can be shorter. I do not know the exact numbers. Unless acid rain is pouring down upon the building, I can not see how a building becomes damaged beyond repair with half a year.

And we are paying gold for the maintenance of these buildings each week. Whom are we paying it to if there isn't any maintenance ongoing?

I completely agree that the whole string of posts relating to "How does population/production affect building damage/repair" should be discussed somewhere else. Perhaps the Helpline forum.

I'll pm a mod to move it to an appropriate forum.

[Indirik]

How long does it take for a building to decay, in-game probable two seasons, half a year. It can be longer, it can be shorter. I do not know the exact numbers. Unless acid rain is pouring down upon the building, I can not see how a building becomes damaged beyond repair with half a year.

OK, so then we need to make the time scales more realistic. Does that include making food take 5 or 6 RL months to grow? And how about maybe a year or two to fully recover from being knifed in the back? And how about multiple *decades* for a region to grow from 100 pop to 60,000?

[Galvez]

Good point. Then again, my latest question. We are paying gold for maintenance, yet the workshops aren't being maintained.

[Bedwyr]

Good point. Then again, my latest question. We are paying gold for maintenance, yet the workshops aren't being maintained.

This I think is a good point.  If the stuff isn't being maintained, then maintenance payments make little sense.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

This I think is a good point.  If the stuff isn't being maintained, then maintenance payments make little sense.

Where do you live? I want to move there if you don't have to pay for maintenance when nothing gets maintained. 

[Bael]

Where do you live? I want to move there if you don't have to pay for maintenance when nothing gets maintained. 

Haha, true. But then again, you don't hold the power of life or death over the people that 'maintain' your building.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Maybe they're those extreme building maintenance workers who'd rather die than not get paid as per the Peasants' Pseudo-Union League?

It is at first illogical, but if you think about it, the building does cost something to keep it open. And it is technically open. You can draft for RCs. Not much you can do about the other buildings. You can force a tournament to be held in a decrepit Tournament Grounds though. So I think that cost could reflect the mere fact of its existence. Maybe some sort of contract among nobles that goes unsaid is that any commercial or military facilities that are sanctioned by the nobility cost the region money to maintain?

Hm, that does offer an analogy. Some city parks look like utter wastelands. Nevertheless, the city does spend money on them. What exactly that money is doing, who knows.

[cjnodell]

My only suggestion would be that you are paying a team of workers to maintain the building but due to there being so few people and such a big city to maintain in addition to the recruitment center they are working on, they just do not get around to doing it.

I kind of envision each city/town/region having a pool of individuals capable of doing this kind of maintenance work. These people are responsible for maintaining roads, residences, places of business, recruitment centers, smithies and all that. The simple fact it that by default these little worker bees are scrambling to accomplish 100 tasks with only enough time to complete 20 of them. By paying them to care for our recruitment centers we are simply adding more to their list.

The thing is we can not prioritize things for them. We can not say "Keep these 10 blocks in good repair for yourselves, take care of all noble and governmental establishments and all recruitment centers and buildings and such. Let the rest be. We know that will make it difficult for new immigrant to establish themselves, just do as you are told." It does suck but I kind of get it.

On the flip side one could look it as saying "I pay an initial lump of money for materials and manpower to build a structure. Once built I pay maintenance fees. Theses fees provide the materials for repairs and fund a dedicated work force that takes care of all upkeep for this structure." This could work and could provide justification for allowing recruitment centers to keep kicking when the population is very low. The mechanics of the game, however, do not seem to support this view.

[Indirik]

We're not talking big money here, even to a fledgling realm. If you have two size 1 RCs and a smithy, that's only 6 gold a week. Not even a brand new realm is going to be seriously inconvenienced by 6 gold a week.

Would it be nice to not have to pay it if it's not going to be maintained anyway? Sure. Why not. I don't think the way the mechanics are now is the perfect balance. The implications of paying maintenance when you weren't getting any was probably never even considered when the two separate mechanics were implemented. But to be honest, the return on the coding effort is, let's be polite here, negligible.

What would be better, perhaps, is a system where a region has the ability to maintain X sizes/points/levels of buildings, with each building costing a preset number of points. The lord can choose to build whatever he wants, but if he goes over the limit, then the buildings slowly start to take damage, just as they do now. The higher the pop, the more you can support. But that's a blue-sky idea. Don't count on it ever getting implemented. 

[Galvez]

What would be better, perhaps, is a system where a region has the ability to maintain X sizes/points/levels of buildings, with each building costing a preset number of points. The lord can choose to build whatever he wants, but if he goes over the limit, then the buildings slowly start to take damage, just as they do now. The higher the pop, the more you can support. But that's a blue-sky idea. Don't count on it ever getting implemented. 

I'll settle for it. On this rate (20-35 immigrants a day), it could take another 100 days before we can successfully maintain anything in Rettleville.

[egamma]

Think about a basically abandoned city. A squatter sees an RC as a nice place to hunker down for the night. He can sneak in because there's not enough people to patrol at night. Once he's in, he lights a cozy fire, and dozes off. Unfortunately, the fire escapes the hearth and spreads to the building. Since there aren't enough people to man the bucket bigrade, the RC burns to the ground.

Or, you could say that people stole the building, piece by piece, to build their own houses. Etc etc.

Basically, Rettleville's population is like New Orleans a day after Katrina hit.

[Galvez]

Although, we are not recovering from a natural disaster. And we have a happy and loyal population.

[fodder]

just think of the paid maintenance as guards/fuel, etc, rather than fixing stuff maintenance i guess

[egamma]

Although, we are not recovering from a natural disaster. And we have a happy and loyal population.

I would consider hordes of undead and werebears to be a supernatural disaster, actually. And just because your army killed the organized ones, doesn't mean that there aren't a few shamblers locked in a forgotten cellar, to be discovered by new tenants, who drop a lantern in terror and burn a square mile of city.

[Chenier]

What I personally don't like is that a 2500 population rural (out of 2500) could have "enough manpower" to maintain a ton of RCs and other buildings, while a 2500 population city (out of a maximum of 250 000 for example) could not. Especially in a city where people are closer together and are more likely to be the type to work in construction/maintenance than would be those farmer peasants in rurals.

That if, if I understand it all correctly and that damage is related to production, and not population count.