Slavery in Medieval Europe

[Glaumring the Fox]

Slaves should be apart of the population, that way nations could send in slave raiders to gather up population, slaves could have a benefit but also draw backs from a regular population, plus if your slave population was higher than your regular population there could be slave revolts etc... It would be complicated but would add another resource and or reason for nations to fight eachother or create economic hardships.

When is the resource aspect of BM coming into play anyways? I believe that will make the game ten times more fun and tactical/strategic.

[dustole]

Hmmm!   Slaves!   that sounds fun.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Oh, yeah, good luck with the offensiveness censors.

But in that vein, during Medieval Europe, I believe that slavery was frowned upon, and rare, if at all present.

[Vellos]

Oh, yeah, good luck with the offensiveness censors.

But in that vein, during Medieval Europe, I believe that slavery was frowned upon, and rare, if at all present.

Explicitly banned by the Catholic Church, in fact. Though the trade continued illicitly in a small way throughout the period; and non-Christians held slaves, so that many Christians found loopholes through which to acquire slaves in Italy and Spain. However, slavery was quite uncommon in Catholic Europe; I honestly have no idea what the Byzantine position on slavery was.

[Geronus]

Explicitly banned by the Catholic Church, in fact. Though the trade continued illicitly in a small way throughout the period; and non-Christians held slaves, so that many Christians found loopholes through which to acquire slaves in Italy and Spain. However, slavery was quite uncommon in Catholic Europe; I honestly have no idea what the Byzantine position on slavery was.

Not true. While the Church gradually and over time succeeded in largely banning the enslavement of Christians by other Christians, enslavement of non-Christians remained permissible throughout the middle ages and beyond. The Papal States used to use Muslim slaves in their galleys. Even the ban on enslaving Christians was not consistently applied throughout the period.

[Glaumring the Fox]

They just called it 'indentured servitude' 

[Jhaelen Irsei]

Not true. While the Church gradually and over time succeeded in largely banning the enslavement of Christians by other Christians, enslavement of non-Christians remained permissible throughout the middle ages and beyond. The Papal States used to use Muslim slaves in their galleys. Even the ban on enslaving Christians was not consistently applied throughout the period.

I'd add that even if slavery of Christians by Christians was formally condemned, many many people until XIX centuries were de facto enslaved because of their debts so working in order to repay them (it'd take even decades or the entire lifespan) was normal and accepted. The debtor was a prisoner by all means, he lost all his right belonging to his creditor. Obviously once a debtor started to work it was very hard that he will set free one day because the rules were made to trap him in a spiral of continuos debts towards his master.

[Glaumring the Fox]

Workhouses were up until quite recently.

[Vellos]

I'd add that even if slavery of Christians by Christians was formally condemned, many many people until XIX centuries were de facto enslaved because of their debts so working in order to repay them (it'd take even decades or the entire lifespan) was normal and accepted. The debtor was a prisoner by all means, he lost all his right belonging to his creditor. Obviously once a debtor started to work it was very hard that he will set free one day because the rules were made to trap him in a spiral of continuos debts towards his master.

Indentured servitude is not slavery. You cannot sell an indentured servant. Both are inhumane, especially by modern standards, but not all inhumanity is identical.

Not true. While the Church gradually and over time succeeded in largely banning the enslavement of Christians by other Christians, enslavement of non-Christians remained permissible throughout the middle ages and beyond. The Papal States used to use Muslim slaves in their galleys. Even the ban on enslaving Christians was not consistently applied throughout the period.

True. Though I'm still pretty confident that slavery was quite uncommon at least in northern Europe. I don't have time at this exact moment to look for more info. I posted quite a bit about this several months ago in another thread:
http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,260.0.html

A primary source of note:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/1171latrsale.html

So yes, enslaving non-Christians was legal (though still, I believe, restricted; note the wording on the Council of London, 1172). But still quite uncommon.

It existed (and, as I said, certainly existed in southern Europe), but doesn't seem to have been a demographically significant number. We wouldn't describe a population as "1% noble, 4% slave, 5% freeman, 90% serf." Identifying the slave population probably would not have been meaningful in most of at least France, England, and the HRE.

[Fleugs]

Slavery was rather uncommon in medieval Europe, and really doesn't need a place in Battlemaster. The slavery as we know it (not to be confused with Roman slavery) originates from the 16th and 17th century, when blacks were imported into the West Indies from Africa.

[Shizzle]

Well, it's not because slavery would be allowed by the game mechanics, that all realms would do so. A gracious balance of benefits and disadvantages might just create a realistic setting, where a minority of realms maintains a slave population.

Madina, for example

[Darkgrave]

Well, it's not because slavery would be allowed by the game mechanics, that all realms would do so. A gracious balance of benefits and disadvantages might just create a realistic setting, where a minority of realms maintains a slave population.

Madina, for example

You really don't like us do you? 

[Shizzle]

You really don't like us do you? 

Haha, I do like Madina I considered hopping over even!

What I meant was that slave trading fits into the whole piracy concept

[Darkgrave]

Haha, I do like Madina I considered hopping over even!

What I meant was that slave trading fits into the whole piracy concept

Feel free! We could use the nobles! 

Take offence at that language... We're privateers!

[Shizzle]

Nah, I'd rather stay in Fissoa on Dwilight