Noble density per realm - Dwilight

[Stabbity]

The thing is, Asylon and Barca used to be some of the most populated realms in the entire continent, with a population equaling Morek (but in a much more compact realm). Luria was actually behind them, and still is the only realm to have completely gained any kind of benefit from the destruction of the west. Morek has collapsed in on itself in numbers of nobles, D'Hara lost much of its food and gold production, Asylon, Barca, and Niselur all lost everything and had to takeover new regions far away from their cores, while Astrum lost most of their regions. I honestly don't know what's going on in Swordfell, they may have seen some benefit, but at the cost to their allies.

Everything Swordfell does is at the cost of those who would call them friend. However, they haven't seen too much boost from the migrations, as they were extremely prejudiced and hostile to those who migrated.

[Ossan]

Barca has gone from one of the largest realms on the island to one of the smallest, and a few of the remaining players seem intent on just trying to kill it off. I forgot that D'hara had more regions, my bad there.

[Ossan]

As the year comes to a close, I really think they should have just changed the map or something, widened the east continent if they got rid of the west one. The current shape kind of sucks balls. I do like the islands though, those are cool.

I still feel that closing the western island didn't really prove to be a success.

[Wolfsong]

It was a bad concept implemented badly that had - unsurprisingly - bad results. It was a bad idea. I don't think anyone was arguing anything otherwise.

[Eldargard]

I do.

I think it was a good idea, I see no problem with the implementation and I have yet to be convinced that the results are 'bad'.

[Wolfsong]

Let me clarify, then.

For everyone not in the admins' favorite realm, it was a bad idea.

[Lorgan]

Let me clarify, then.

For everyone not in the admins' favorite realm, it was a bad idea.

Seriously?
The idea was good. It's not Tim's fault that people go crying and blaming him for trying to do something in stead of making the best of surviving and prevailing over a random event in game. The whole thing made RP sense and those who went along with it seem to have a good time despite having lost everything but themselves. But of course if you are hell-bent on continuing to argue about it and whine that the evil admin took your toys and gave them all to his favourest buddy, you refuse to accept it as the irrevocable calamity that it was. Accept that the world is different, and you'll enjoy it.

[Ossan]

I don't blame the admins for choosing this idea, there really weren't any perfect solutions for the problem (better than sinking an entire continent) and it really did seem like a cool idea, however it had lots of problems and was, to some degree, poorly implemented.

We had no idea how much time we would have before the monsters actually forced us out, the admins had to magically slay them because we got trapped.

The mechanics of BM severely punish long marches of armies into foreign lands, and the bonuses to reduce morale penalties and payment costs for units were implemented after we were well under way and already facing problems with payment and morale.

The thin shape of the continent just doesn't lend itself well to BM, its kind of awful in a way. I know that editing the map is probably a huge amount of work though. *opens up Age of Wonders Shadow Magic map editor anyway* I still love that this is what Tom uses for the maps for this game.

I do still appreciate that the admins edited Aveston so that Barca could move its capital there too. We wouldn't be around if that hadn't happened because our attack on Shinnen was a complete cock up.

The goal of this migration was to increase the population of the nations on the east continent, and while there may have been some increase the amount of players who have just ended up out-right quitting the game (paused or deleting their accounts entirely) weighs heavily against any gains.

It really could have been better implemented, and I still think it could have been a lot of fun, but it was definitely not an overall success.

I do.

I think it was a good idea, I see no problem with the implementation and I have yet to be convinced that the results are 'bad'.

Well checking your family page shows you have only had that family for four months and one of your two characters is in Luria Nova, so you were neither there for nor did you have to deal with the entire migration thing. Unless you had a previous family that was there that I don't know about.

Figured I'd update this out of curiosity.

Active characters on Dwilight

Realm/date	28/2/14	31/3/14	30/4/14	31/5/14	30/6/14	31/7/14	16/8/14	20/11/14
Astrum	17	19	26	23	20	20	18	15
Asylon	42	42	38	20	21	22	17	-
Barca	39	38	29	21	22	16	15	12*
Corsanctum	13	7	3	-	-	-	-	-
D'Hara	23	28	25	28	28	28	27	25
Fissoa	28	31	33	32	33	33	34	29
Luria Nova	37	42	47	58	49	46	50	58
Morek Empire	35	39	37	37	30	28	22	34
Niselur	28	16	6	-	-	-	-	-
Swordfell	19	19	24	27	19	19	22	22
TOTAL	281	281	268	246	222	212	205 195

*One of the Nobles in Barca was killed in a duel months ago, yet he is still listed as a Noble without a unit in Aveston and shows up on messages and drop down lists. So he's a ghost I guess.


Noble densities for each realm relative to number of regions as of November 20th, 2014.

Realm	Nobles	Regions	Density
Astrum	15	18	0.83
Aslyon	0	0	0
Barca	12*	3	4.0
Corsanctum	0	0	0
D'Hara	25	10	2.5
Fissoa	29	23	1.26
Luria Nova	58	20	2.9
Morek	25	34	0.74
Niselur	0	0	0
Swordfell	22	16	1.38
TOTAL	186	124	1.5

Compared to the star of this thread on March 8th, 2014

Here are the noble densities for each realm relative to number of regions.

                           Nobles          Regions        Density
Morek                     34                 34               1.0
Barca                     40                 20               2.0
Fissoa                     27                 18               1.5
Astrum                   17                 11               1.55
D'Hara                    24                 16               1.5
Corsanctum            15                 12               1.25
Asylon                    44                 26               1.69
Luria Nova              35                 27               1.30
Niselur                   27                 15                1.8
Swordfell                18                 10               1.8

Something I found very very interesting. Take it for what you will. By the way, the number of nobles from new families in Barca at least is up from three weeks ago. We had 37 nobles then.  We've been on an upward trend in number of nobles for a while now.

Total: 281 Nobles distributed amongst 189 regions - 1.49 nobles per region.

I find it interesting how the overall Noble density hasn't really changed, despite 95 fewer nobles and 65 fewer regions.

[DeVerci]

I miss old Barca. 

[GundamMerc]

As I've said previously, it would have made more sense to have the monsters invade the area that Morek was controlling. That would have rid us of many extra regions while not affecting as many players. But it's a bit late for that.

[Eldargard]

Well checking your family page shows you have only had that family for four months and one of your two characters is in Luria Nova, so you were neither there for nor did you have to deal with the entire migration thing. Unless you had a previous family that was there that I don't know about.

I have had previous families before this. One of them was a key figure in establishing Barca and it's first judge - a nation I have always had an affinity for and that seems to be the home of many players critical of the monster invasion. I have been playing BattleMaster, off and on, for close to 10 years.

All the same, you are right in some respects. I was not playing when the devs closed half of Dwilight. Since returning to the game, I have had a character in a realm that many claim has been largely unaffected by the changes. Regardless, I maintain my position in that the idea was one of the better options and that the devs have don their best of making the best of a bad situation. I honestly believe that there were no good options available to the devs and that they really did a good job of things when this is considered.

Lastly, I can not believe the level of arrogance and willful ignorance that all this complaining displays. Sure, we can sit here and say that we would have done this and that and it would have been so much better. We can disdainfully point out how the devs should have thought of this and that. I sincerely doubt, however, that any of those complaining could have done any better.

It is easy to sit here now, look back at what happened and say, well the devs clearly should have... How arrogant is it to assume that any of us would have easily divined all possible problems and would have deftly mitigated every one of them? How ignorant must we be to pretend that our present insight is not a result of our possessing knowledge is what already happed and instead act as if these things were obvious from the beginning?

Done ranting for now...

[Constantine]

Ossan, none of the totals in your Active Characters table are counted correctly. What gives?

[Ossan]

Ossan, none of the totals in your Active Characters table are counted correctly. What gives?

*facepalms*

I brilliantly decided to delete Asylon, Corsanctum and Niselur entirely from that table, I don't know why the new total I added keeps positioning itself down below though, I'll fix that asap.

[GundamMerc]

I have had previous families before this. One of them was a key figure in establishing Barca and it's first judge - a nation I have always had an affinity for and that seems to be the home of many players critical of the monster invasion. I have been playing BattleMaster, off and on, for close to 10 years.

All the same, you are right in some respects. I was not playing when the devs closed half of Dwilight. Since returning to the game, I have had a character in a realm that many claim has been largely unaffected by the changes. Regardless, I maintain my position in that the idea was one of the better options and that the devs have don their best of making the best of a bad situation. I honestly believe that there were no good options available to the devs and that they really did a good job of things when this is considered.

Lastly, I can not believe the level of arrogance and willful ignorance that all this complaining displays. Sure, we can sit here and say that we would have done this and that and it would have been so much better. We can disdainfully point out how the devs should have thought of this and that. I sincerely doubt, however, that any of those complaining could have done any better.

It is easy to sit here now, look back at what happened and say, well the devs clearly should have... How arrogant is it to assume that any of us would have easily divined all possible problems and would have deftly mitigated every one of them? How ignorant must we be to pretend that our present insight is not a result of our possessing knowledge is what already happed and instead act as if these things were obvious from the beginning?

Done ranting for now...

Because as soon as they announced what was happening, I warned them that this was punishing two of the most populated realms on Dwilight, that also happened to be the most densely populated as well. I pointed out how Morek was at the time barely populated enough to even function, and that if we were going to go ahead with a monster invasion, that Morek would be the place to do it since the land they controlled was some of the least fought over and used on the entire continent. What do you think the reason I made this thread for was? It was to provide an analytical look at the population of the continent.

My prediction about what happened came to fruition, so this isn't just some "hindsight is 20/20" thing.

[Graeth]

Lastly, I can not believe the level of arrogance and willful ignorance that all this complaining displays. Sure, we can sit here and say that we would have done this and that and it would have been so much better. We can disdainfully point out how the devs should have thought of this and that. I sincerely doubt, however, that any of those complaining could have done any better.

It is easy to sit here now, look back at what happened and say, well the devs clearly should have... How arrogant is it to assume that any of us would have easily divined all possible problems and would have deftly mitigated every one of them? How ignorant must we be to pretend that our present insight is not a result of our possessing knowledge is what already happed and instead act as if these things were obvious from the beginning?

The most dense and active realms were killed off in favor of dead realms that no one wanted to play in because they were just gold farms for families. We've lost a ton of good players on the island. People I've played with for years, who made the game what it was for me, left because everything we spent the last 3 or more years making was just arbitrarily wiped. Because of the massive drop in numbers, I assume most other Western realms experienced similar situations. Even those that have stuck around have done so in an incredibly diminished capacity. It's hard to be motivated when everything you've committed to for years was wiped, not because of in game reasons or through in game mechanics, but because someone in control decided they liked another realm better. My experience on Dwilight has been that it is nothing but a shell of its former self since the wipe. The wipe drove off large numbers of players, many of them very good players who enhanced the game for everyone else. Sorry if that is being too arrogant for you, but people have a right to be peeved.