Noble density per realm - Dwilight

[Chenier]

Apart from Anaris already mentioned, different continents currently have different rules (SMA, 1 turn/day) which I'd loathe to see abolished.Not at all. I'm only talking about eliminating obvious flaws

I think it'd be possible to keep most of this.

As it is, I think each continent has its database, and its own special rules. Merging the continents might bring it all into the same database, but there would be an extra column for "continent". If it wouldn't be possible to have some continents as testing and others as stable (except of SI is kept apart and made into testing), it would be possible to apply different rules. Mid-turn could simply not occur to characters in regions where CONTINENT_ID=6 (Colonies). My understanding of the code is that this would be possible, and it could be RPed as the days being so short (arctic continent, atmosphere, magic) that there really is only 8 hours of sunlight per day there. 1 character-per-continent could be applied on a realm-basis, as previously mentioned, where one cannot join a realm who has its capital on Dwilight if one already has a character there. One could *travel* there, but not join the realms. SMA... while I don't feel like it has been applied in any significant manner in quite a long time, nothing would prevent us from maintaining these rules on a regional basis.

[Anaris]

Merging the continents might bring it all into the same database, but there would be an extra column for "continent".

An extra column in every single table??

No. If this were to happen, it could not maintain the true separation of continents in any fundamental way.

[Chenier]

An extra column in every single table??

No. If this were to happen, it could not maintain the true separation of continents in any fundamental way.

I'm not *that* familiar with your databases, so I have no idea how many tables you do have.

I imagine that you would only need a single table to hold all region data. Other tables would be... what? Characters? Realms? I presume that whenever continent matters to characters, realms, or anything else, it could just look up the region table, no?

For example, say we want players to only hold titles in one realm per continent. When that player tries to gain a new government title, the game would check the character table to see what realm all of his characters are attached to. Then, it would check the realm table to see what capitals these realms have. Then, it would look up the regions table to see what continent that capital region belongs to, thus, identifying what continent each character belongs to. It would then apply the rules and determine if the desired action (such as running in an election) is possible or not.

Would this work?

Again, I've never actually seen BM's code or databases. I do understand, however, that redundant data is bad.

[Indirik]

While I like the idea of a large continent with lots of realms, I have to say that I don't like the merging idea. It would be fiendishly complex process, prone to an insane amount of bugs. It would also require the addition of all kinds of crazy regional restrictions due to council members, lordships, duchies, and other such things.

And on top of all that, you'd completely upset the political landscape of every island. At this point, that would be the death of the game. We'd be better off just closing the world, and opening BattleMaster 2.0.

[Chenier]

While I like the idea of a large continent with lots of realms, I have to say that I don't like the merging idea. It would be fiendishly complex process, prone to an insane amount of bugs. It would also require the addition of all kinds of crazy regional restrictions due to council members, lordships, duchies, and other such things.

And on top of all that, you'd completely upset the political landscape of every island. At this point, that would be the death of the game. We'd be better off just closing the world, and opening BattleMaster 2.0.

I think you are being a bit drastic, there.

People have complained about the lack of opportunities on AT since forever. Last time I was on colonies, people complained about the same thing, where one realm/empire had won over everyone. I just left FEI in exactly the same situation, with an empire having won over everyone. On Dwilight, everyone complains about the geography and lack of possibilities. There too, Luria is a behemoth than not even the rest of the continent combined can counter. On BT, everyone agrees that Rio's situation is ridiculous, and the last torture reports I had of Rio nobles showed that they didn't like that situation themselves. I hear similar complaints for EC.

None of the continents, in their current form, seem to please the player base. The desire for greater proximity seems like a consensus to me. Cut up realms into pieces, and players of that realm will be unhappy. Bring realms closer to each other? Not so much. These new neighbors don't need to be enemies. And they represent mutual opportunities, both for support and expansion.

Should such a change be imposed unilaterally? Perhaps not. Sending a survey to the players would be a good idea. I think most would be favorable to the idea, if they understand that we won't be drastically modifying the continents themselves, just mostly bringing them within reach of each other.

[Constantine]

Or open a new continent, balanced, ironed-out and pristine. :3

[Indirik]

I think you are being a bit drastic, there.

I don't think I'm being too unrealistic in the end result. You're talking about major political upheaval across the entire game. You're going to upset the balance of every island. While I agree that some upheaval may be needed, this kind of forced upheaval is not the way to go. I think you'd really have better luck just closing most of the islands, and starting over.

[Indirik]

Or open a new continent, balanced, ironed-out and pristine. :3

So, you're answer to a sparsely populated, thinned-out landscape is to open a brand new island, and thin out everything even more?

I'm not against the general idea of some kind of fresh start myself, but the only way it would work would be to have it accompany the closing of multiple existing islands.

Like, say, close Dwilight, BT, and FEI, then allow all of those characters the opportunity to emigrate to a new island X, who's landmass has approximately half the regions of those three islands put together.

This would mean, of course, the permanent death of those islands. If they ever got re-opened, which I don't think is likely, they would be a clean, blank slate.

[trying]

I would really like to see some kind of EC and AT showdown but combining Dwi, BT, and FEI would be better for the game overall.

[Zakilevo]

Well not too sure about combining islands(sounds like more work than creating a new one actually. Merging all islands into a single database? That sounds TOO much work).

I am not sure what Anaris's plan is but I am sure it is much better than the current design. Either way, we need to find a way to shut some islands down I think. Like FEI. After Arcaea's victory, the island seems to be dying. Might as well say you won and wipe the island off.

[Chenier]

I don't think I'm being too unrealistic in the end result. You're talking about major political upheaval across the entire game. You're going to upset the balance of every island. While I agree that some upheaval may be needed, this kind of forced upheaval is not the way to go. I think you'd really have better luck just closing most of the islands, and starting over.

I disagree. Most of the actions taken thus far have roughly been Devs picking off realms, and telling players to adapt. That pissed off players, because they had little say in it. One couldn't talk the monsters into not invading, or the glaciers into not moving. Move continents close to each other, and players have 100% of the say in what happens.

[Eldargard]

I agree completely with Anaris: no matter how you go about it, any major change like those proposed here will result in complaints, loss of players (hopefully short term) and accusations of preferential treatment.

I also think Indirik presents a reasonable approach: If such major changes are desired/needed/accepted, it might be better to start from scratch. Instead of changing existing islands or merging them, create a new one, have others migrate to it, then close the old ones. If a combined world is desired, just create one new world-island and have all characters migrate to it, then close all islands.

I also see Constantine's point: The layout of a map probably has a huge influence in how things play out and what war opportunities there may be. On the flip side, if players discover geographically advantageous positions, why are they not fighting like mad for possession? Are these positions so advantageous that there is no hope at all?

Also, even if we started changing geography in an attempt to "even the playing field", it is nearly guaranteed that different geographically advantageous positions will be found. Then we would have to change things again and they cycle would repeat. Now, however, players are constantly frustrated because their city just turned into a rural region and that damn mountain keeps moving. I still believe that, though some geography might lend itself to combat more than others, it is ultimately up to the players to make pick fights and make things fun.

[Constantine]

So, you're answer to a sparsely populated, thinned-out landscape is to open a brand new island, and thin out everything even more?

Not exactly.
Firstly, if we take into account the current decrease in playerbase, we can design a smaller continent to actually improve the noble density. It would be easier to enlarge the landmass later if it ever gets overpopulated than decrease it.
Secondly, if we enforce a 1 noble per continent rule for all continents, we will populate a new server in a few days.

[Constantine]

I also see Constantine's point: The layout of a map probably has a huge influence in how things play out and what war opportunities there may be. On the flip side, if players discover geographically advantageous positions, why are they not fighting like mad for possession?

Such positions are sort of advantageous if they were real countries.
Gameplay wise they are a dead end.

[Eldargard]

Has anyone considered trying to implement mutable regions?

For example:
* All regions start as Mountain or Other.
* Mountains can not change and have set stats like today.
* All other regions have six sets of base stats, one each for Badlands, Rural, Woodland, Townsland, Stronghold, and City
* The climate, location and "wetness" of a region as well as some potential random factor create it's base type
* A region, without player effort will slowly revert to it's base type
* The further a region is taken from it's base type the more effort it required to maintain it at it's new type.
* All regions start as their base type but can be changed by player action
* This way a Bad Land or Wood Land can be made Rural and Rural could become Badland or Woodland
* A Rural can also be converted to a Townsland or Stronghold and a Townsland can become a City.
* Likewise a City can become a Townsland and a Townsland or Stronghold can revert to Rural which can then become Badlands or Woodland.
* Actions could be introduced that players can use to change region types but some changes might be secondary in nature (overpopulate a Rural while not importing enough food will cause it to become Badlands for example)

I think that the main benefit to such a system is that players can then combat and create geographically advantageous positions without much dev intervention. Also, the dev's can make adjustments if needed in a fairly unobtrusive way: Too many cities in one ares? Don't blast the city off the face of the planet, just change that regions base type. The player can still keep their city if they are willing to put the work into it and even if they choose not to the city will slowly change to it's new base type giving them time to adjust.

Of course, this would be a major change and would require a library of "maps" to create the entire map and a single content's region information database would become five times as large as it is now. Just thought I would throw the idea out there though!