Author Topic: North Vs. South  (Read 38867 times)

Anaris

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Re: North Vs. South
« Reply #30: July 10, 2014, 04:53:15 PM »
That's never been Kindara's stance while Rosalind has been High Lady. I can't speak for what High Lords Edmund or Alpha's son said while they were in charge, but Rosalind has always told Velax that she doesn't object to the Empire existing in the north. But she wants the south to remain free. That's the stance of the majority of nobles in Kindara (and Cathay too, I think, but you'd have to ask them to be sure).

That sounds reasonable. It's not the impression anyone in Zonasa has of our enemies' attitude, though. I wouldn't presume to speak for Arcaea, but I suspect their impression is similar to ours.

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Rosalind's bottom line on surrender terms has always been to have a south free of the Empire,

Which would require Zonasa to abrogate its treaty of membership.

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assurances that Kindara and Cathay won't be the perpetual target of one-sided wars by the whole of the Empire,

Reasonable on the face of it, but wording would be tricky to avoid situations where Kindara or Cathay blatantly provoke a war, and then claim that it's a breach of the terms.

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and - since the glacier - enough territory to make Kindara a viable realm.

Unless you're willing to take Cathay's territory, that's just laughable.

Rosalind still seems to be operating from a position where she has negotiating room, rather than one where she's outright losing the war. The impression these terms give is that you think that there's a realistic chance that Kindara and Cathay could win something remotely like them by continuing the war—that is, after all, what peace terms (whether or not you call them surrender) are usually about. But by any standard I can see, that's just totally impossible at this point. Zonasa is gaining strength, and has retaken Ipsosez again, which prevents any sort of sortie by the Free Realms into the eastern side of the continent where the rogue regions are—except through Haul, and you saw what happened last time you tried that. The travel times are just too absurd to make it feasible.

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When Rosalind first got elected she offered to return all Zonasan territory except Batesoar, Alanurs, and the region east of Masahakon (forgotten it's name), but Velax refused to settle on that because he wanted to fulfill his promise to Zonasa to give them all of their territory back.

And why wasn't Rosalind willing to consider that? Every single region Zonasa once held that Kindara held at that point was taken in this war, whether by sword or by treachery. If you had agreed to that then, there's a strong possibility Kindara would have been in a position to actually get help from the Empire, and even Zonasa, when the ice came. (Though I realize that that couldn't have been an actual factor in the thinking back then.)

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6) Kindara attacks its ally Cathay and gets Imperial help to take Cathayan regions if needed.

The impression I had of this part of the terms was that it was more like, "Since you are ridiculously low on land, we are wiling to help you take land from Cathay. Or not, your choice." But, again, that's just my impression.

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7) Closure of all Order of the Elders temples (pretty sure that was in the last terms offered).

Yep, Baranion insisted on that one after Magnus called the crusade.

Interestingly, thus far, we've gotten almost everything we wanted out of those terms. Neither Kindara nor Cathay holds any regions that were Zonasan at the beginning of the war (Haul was claimed by Zonasa, but not held at that time), Magnus ran off with his tail between his legs, and the Order of the Elders has, I believe, collapsed with the departure of all its elder priests.
Timothy Collett

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