Author Topic: North Vs. South  (Read 38392 times)

Foxglove

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Re: North Vs. South
« Reply #30: July 10, 2014, 05:48:43 PM »
you wanted more regions we'd help you take them from Cathay if you wished.

The betrayal of Cathay was the biggest sticking point there. There's also the point that if Kindara accepted peace but didn't want to take regions from Cathay, we might as well have wound up the realm anyway because it would have had no territory (remember that Haul and Taop are just on loan from Cathay). So the choices were: take land from Cathay. Or you can wind up your realm after peace. Or we can destroy you.

I should be absolutely clear here: if Kindara has an issue with the terms it was offered, then you are the unreasonable ones. It is the utter height of arrogance to claim that because there's no outcry over terms you personally think are unreasonable, there must be a double standard in the BM community.

It's also the height of arrogance for you to feel you personally know what are reasonable terms, isn't it?

I have to admit that my thinking here has been greatly coloured by the discussions around this subject that have been going on over in Might & Fealty. So it's probably unfair to bring them over here. To some extent, BM is running on an outmoded concept of what is reasonable and unreasonable terms, or what is appropriate in victory and defeat, that we've been trying to find ways to stamp out over in M&F. Where the emphasis is trying to be put on never giving the loser terms that will humiliate them (them seeing the terms as humiliating, that is) and several wars have been stopped because of it.

you make generalisations based on nothing. Most of those who are supposedly against the Empire likely aren't against "the Empire" at all.

No, they're not based on nothing. I've seen the OOC messages in the south where people are saying this. You haven't. Several players also gave it as the OOC reason for moving their characters off the island when the glaicer hit.

Once more, I have to say that most of the opinions I've written in this thread is based on what people have being saying over the past few months about the Imperial model and their dislike of it. You can either believe me or not *shrugs*

No, Rosalind's bottom line on surrender terms has been that you won't given back all the territory taken from Zonasa. That's been the one constant thread in all talks with Rosalind.

That was true before the glacier. But not afterwards. You've also ignored the parts where Rosalind wanted a free south, enough territory to make Kindara a viable realm without harming Cathay. And, most importantly, the part where she wanted assurances that Kindara wouldn't be the whipping boy of the entire Empire each time it wanted a war. To which Velax's response was, "Tough. Kindara should have joined the Empire when it had the chance."

Which would require Zonasa to abrogate its treaty of membership.

Depends where you draw the north/south line. We all use south, but it's probably no longer an accurate term since the glacier wiped off the south of the map. Maybe west or south west is more accurate.

Anyhoo, I have grocery shopping to do, so I might pick up on this thread later if I have the time. Although I'm preparing tonight for a vacation/holiday so I'm only likely to be semi-active at best for the next few days.