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Author Topic: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?  (Read 8024 times)

Jens Namtrah

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City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Topic Start: May 06, 2014, 11:54:09 AM »
If a city has a lord, but is not a Duke/Duchy, do they still have an option to secede and form a new realm?
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Anaris

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #1: May 06, 2014, 02:16:01 PM »
No. Only Dukes can secede. They have to have at least one city within their Duchy, and it cannot be the last city in the realm.
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Timothy Collett

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jaune

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #2: May 06, 2014, 02:17:44 PM »
Quote from: Anaris on May 06, 2014, 02:16:01 PM
No. Only Dukes can secede. They have to have at least one city within their Duchy, and it cannot be the last city in the realm.

This puzzles me a bit. Why last city cant secede or change realm?
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Anaris

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #3: May 06, 2014, 02:28:35 PM »
Quote from: jaune on May 06, 2014, 02:17:44 PM
This puzzles me a bit. Why last city cant secede or change realm?

Because that would allow a single person, with a single button-click, to destroy an otherwise perfectly viable realm entirely, without any interaction or recourse from other players.
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Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

jaune

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #4: May 06, 2014, 02:46:54 PM »
Ok, that kind of makes sense. But it also "forces" people to do funny things "fake war" to get around such restriction.
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Anaris

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #5: May 06, 2014, 02:49:20 PM »
Quote from: jaune on May 06, 2014, 02:46:54 PM
Ok, that kind of makes sense. But it also "forces" people to do funny things "fake war" to get around such restriction.

In situations like a surrender after a defeat in war, that is usually not an issue.

In general, though, any time you feel you "have" to declare a "fake war," you're probably doing something wrong, and there's a good chance you're going to be on the receiving end of at least a warning.
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Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

jaune

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #6: May 06, 2014, 02:55:14 PM »
Now you are making me more confused.

Lets say Realm A lost war. Realm B says you must give City to Realm C. If said city is last city of the realm, but Realm A is at peace with Realm C.

Options are fake war with realm C or Realm B destroy city and TO it and then hand it over to C. Which is not very nice if City happens to have a lot militia and infra built. It would be easier to declare fake war with realm C than first TO by realm B and then hand over it to Realm C. It would wreck a lot regions on every party.
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Anaris

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #7: May 06, 2014, 03:31:04 PM »
Quote from: jaune on May 06, 2014, 02:55:14 PM
Now you are making me more confused.

Lets say Realm A lost war. Realm B says you must give City to Realm C. If said city is last city of the realm, but Realm A is at peace with Realm C.

Options are fake war with realm C or Realm B destroy city and TO it and then hand it over to C. Which is not very nice if City happens to have a lot militia and infra built. It would be easier to declare fake war with realm C than first TO by realm B and then hand over it to Realm C. It would wreck a lot regions on every party.

I'm not sure why the fake war with C (and then having C TO the region) is better than having B TO the region and then hand it over to C.

Either way, though, this still fits the "surrender" scenario, in my view, even though it's handing over the region to a realm that didn't actively defeat you. I would consider it highly unlikely that surrender terms of this sort would have C be a realm that was A's friend, so the "fake war" would be real enough that they didn't at all like each other.

The kinds of things I was thinking of were along the lines of realms trying to merge to get stronger, or the days of realms trying to use fake wars to avoid TMP penalties (not that that helped much).
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Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

jaune

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #8: May 06, 2014, 06:13:28 PM »
It would cause a lot region problems if its first TOed then handed over to every participant.

I dont know if there easy solution for these kind of complicated realms disbanding situations... and not sure if there even should be.

-Jaune
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Chamberlain

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #9: May 06, 2014, 11:46:37 PM »
If the City is the Realm Capital, can it still secede?
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vonGenf

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #10: May 07, 2014, 12:42:18 AM »
Quote from: Chamberlain on May 06, 2014, 11:46:37 PM
If the City is the Realm Capital, can it still secede?

A duchy cannot secede if it contains the realm capital.
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Chamberlain

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #11: May 07, 2014, 12:58:01 AM »
Didn't think so.  Thanks.
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Ketchum

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #12: May 07, 2014, 02:43:51 AM »
Quote from: vonGenf on May 07, 2014, 12:42:18 AM
A duchy cannot secede if it contains the realm capital.
I remember during the realm crisis after the war, egamma character(duke of Oritolon city which is Oritolon realm capital city) changed allegiance to Lukon realm. At that time, Oritolon realm still had Alebad city, so it is not considered as last city. A duchy can change side but cannot secede on its own. Not sure if this can help.
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Indirik

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #13: May 07, 2014, 05:08:36 AM »
Quote from: Ketchum on May 07, 2014, 02:43:51 AM
A duchy that contains the capital city can change side but cannot secede on its own.
... a slight clarification there ...
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Chamberlain

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Re: City that is not a Duchy declare independence?
« Reply #14: May 07, 2014, 02:29:15 PM »
The power Dukes have to simply be seems way over the top.  They are basically immovable once in post it seems
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