in game misogyny?

[Gustav Kuriga]

So yeah, you said this...

Er, lemme clarify.

The issue I'm talking about now, the one that I feel is important, is specifically misogyny as it relates to the game and the fantasy genre. I'm not the one who called it a crusade, and it's really not- I just didn't feel it was necessary to refute that assertion because it is not relevant to the topic.

I'm just trying to cover all the bases, make sure all of the information is on the table. That's what is important to me: make sure that any decisions that are made or opinions formed on this subject are made with every perspective in mind. It's not like I think we can put an end to rape in the Battlemaster forums. But we can make the most responsible decisions by having all the information.

Really not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers here...

Right after I posted this...

Not to mention several female players have already said that they do not see a problem with sexist characters. Something that some of our morally outraged male players have not taken notice of. 

I really think that if people are going to ignore the opinions of female players regarding someone playing a male sexist character, then they don't really deserve to speak on the topic...

Also, I would like to add that not all fantasy books are your typical cliche orcs/elves/humans stuff that gets shoveled out by mostly crap authors who can't think of an original idea. There are many other fantasy books that have different settings, several of which have very, very gritty and realistic settings (The Black Company by Glen Cook comes to mind in particular, and I recommend it for anyone who reads fantasy).

[McManus_Clan]

So yeah, you said this...

Right after I posted this...

I really think that if people are going to ignore the opinions of female players regarding someone playing a male sexist character, then they don't really deserve to speak on the topic...

Also, I would like to add that not all fantasy books are your typical cliche orcs/elves/humans stuff that gets shoveled out by mostly crap authors who can't think of an original idea. There are many other fantasy books that have different settings, several of which have very, very gritty and realistic settings (The Black Company by Glen Cook comes to mind in particular, and I recommend it for anyone who reads fantasy).

I don't think it's fair to tell me that I "don't deserve to speak" just because some other people already agree with you and I don't. It's not like all women think the same- just because some are okay with it doesn't mean we all are.

[Hyral]

I really think that if people are going to ignore the opinions of female players regarding someone playing a male sexist character, then they don't really deserve to speak on the topic...

I think you've missed the part where, due to the nature of the sexism, people who aren't okay with what's going on usually don't say so. It's just my personal observation, but I find this to be especially true in situations when there are women who express support/indifference for the subject at hand (for example, roleplayed sexism). Because that tends to lead to arguments along the lines of "Well, those women are okay with it, so the problem here is you."

Normally I wouldn't put myself into this kind of conversation, but the 'these women are okay with it so everyone should be" thing really irks me. You're obviously not trying to be offensive, but please recognize that different people have different levels of tolerance and sometimes the people who are the least okay with a given situation are the people you're not hearing from.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I think you've missed the part where, due to the nature of the sexism, people who aren't okay with what's going on usually don't say so. It's just my personal observation, but I find this to be especially true in situations when there are women who express support/indifference for the subject at hand (for example, roleplayed sexism). Because that tends to lead to arguments along the lines of "Well, those women are okay with it, so the problem here is you."

Normally I wouldn't put myself into this kind of conversation, but the 'these women are okay with it so everyone should be" thing really irks me. You're obviously not trying to be offensive, but please recognize that different people have different levels of tolerance and sometimes the people who are the least okay with a given situation are the people you're not hearing from.

And I am stating that most of the people who are having an issue with it are males... which is something of a double standard. I don't think anyone would have a problem with me playing a female character that saw men as inferior, but god forbid I reverse it.

[Anaris]

And I am stating that most of the people who are having an issue with it are males...

Most of the people on the forums are males.

Most of the people in the game are males.

Thus, concluding anything from that is not likely to be especially valid.

[Jens Namtrah]

And I am stating that most of the people who are having an issue with it are males... which is something of a double standard. I don't think anyone would have a problem with me playing a female character that saw men as inferior, but god forbid I reverse it.

The ENORMOUS point you are missing here - because this exact argument is made in many places - is that men do not have a thousands year old history of being subjected  to the things women have to put up. So no, it's not a double standard, because it's not "the same thing but in reverse".

The EVEN BIGGER, more important point many here seem to be missing is that this game is intended to be a friendly, open atmosphere for players of all types, and willfully dragging misogyny or racism or homophobia into the game flies in the face of that.

Those things are not welcome here, and no amount of "realism justification" is going to change that.   

[Cren]

It'd be a realism justification if most of the male characters had the same view on women. It is just a single character who does it, he creates conflict and conflict is good as it lets people to have more interactions with each other. It is perfectly valid in an IC sense.

[Constantine]

I think administration gave a clear answer on their stance concerning this kind of roleplay.
I don't understand why people keep making contradicting blanket statements. I say leave community policing to the authorities.

[Indirik]

Constantine has the right of it. The game policy on this sort of thing is clear. If you think someone is going too far, crossing the line into inappropriate activity, please report it to the Titans, and they will take care of it.

[Qyasogk]

What's interesting about this, is that because both male and female players have the ability to play both male and female characters, people of both genders can try things out. Which I think is overall a good thing for people to experience some empathy with their gender counterparts.