Getting Started Again

[Chenier]

* Quick access to combat (I REALLY dislike the "too little honor/prestige to do anything ambitious" sage)

This may be off-topic, but I really don't see anything positive coming out of this mechanic. It's newbie-hostile. In realms where battles aren't overly abundant (i.e. most realms at any given time), it can prevent a new character from having access to a great deal of actions and positions for a very, very long time. Worst of all, it prevents access to the sole means of gaining h/p outside of combat (police work and the such).

[Eldargard]

This may be off-topic, but I really don't see anything positive coming out of this mechanic. It's newbie-hostile. In realms where battles aren't overly abundant (i.e. most realms at any given time), it can prevent a new character from having access to a great deal of actions and positions for a very, very long time. Worst of all, it prevents access to the sole means of gaining h/p outside of combat (police work and the such).

I agree completely and have voiced the same opinion before. If I were playing a single player, PvE RPG it would make sense. In BattleMaster, however, the mechanic just feels... off if many ways.

[Anaris]

This has been addressed a number of times.

Like any game, BattleMaster needs to have a feeling of progression. If you start out able to do anything and everything, humans have a tendency to try a bunch of stuff, then realize that there's nothing new to look forward to, and get bored.

We need new players, there's no arguing with that. But there's also no point in making a change that will make new players twice as likely to stay after their first day—and four times as likely to leave after their first month.

[Renodin]

Dwilight In general seems to fit with your criteria Scarborn. Same for Beluaterra.

As for the Luria imploding comment. I hardly think so hehe. Rather it seems the opposite in more ways than just war or border expansion. Overcrowding was never a problem in any realm I think. Rather it creates more pressure to do well and offers more opportunities to interact.

Just start reaching out, don't sit around and wait but send that letter first. Throw out that Rp.

From what I've briefly seen of Scarborn he will be a great addition to the Realm.

[Cren]

He used to be a noble of Luria Nova. Brantley Unwin, remember?

[Eldargard]

I am surprised anyone remembers.

I was primarily a part of Luria Vesperi just before Solaria merged into Luria Nova then took over Luria Vesperi. I ended up leaving for the Grand Duchy of Fissoa shortly after the uniting of Lurias. I also had little to do with the realm itself and find the Luria of today to be quite different that the Luria I recall.

Still, Luria looks good so far. I am having a hard time with the whole "The games says your are a Duke of a Dukedom but I guess i can call you a King of a Kingdom if I have to" thing.

[Eldargard]

This has been addressed a number of times.

Like any game, BattleMaster needs to have a feeling of progression. If you start out able to do anything and everything, humans have a tendency to try a bunch of stuff, then realize that there's nothing new to look forward to, and get bored.

We need new players, there's no arguing with that. But there's also no point in making a change that will make new players twice as likely to stay after their first day—and four times as likely to leave after their first month.

Sure has. Though I do want to clarify that I was never in favor of removing H/P entirely or incentives to play. I simply see some aspects of the H/P system as incentively and some parts as plain frustrating. I also think that the unique player drive aspect of BM means that you do not always need a mechanical grading of numbers to provide a challenge as the other players often provide better challenges than "gain 3 more honor please" ever could.

My ideal state:

Challenge of attaining a Lordship/Government Position: Convince the players responsible for the appointment you are qualified and that is enough.
Challenge of Getting a Bigger Unit: Gain more H/P so they want to follow you into battle.
Challenge of Recruiting Elite Units: Gain more H/P so they wan to join you.
Challenge of Changing Your Class: None, but make class abilities more effective for characters with higher H/P if appropriate just like skills do.

I guess that my opinion is that when it comes to influencing NPC decisions, your characters H/P should be a key factor as the game does not really have any other way to judge you. If H/P makes courtier, diplomat and trader actions more effective, here is motivation to collect them. When it comes to influencing PC decisions, H/P rarely plays a role anyways and only serves to frustrate players. The real hurdle is convincing them in game with your words and actions. Besides, how honorable and prestigious people perceive your character rarely falls in line with your character's H/P stats.

Of course, I as I have said before, I do not have as complete a picture as the Dev team does and I will respect their decision on this as I am sure there are so many factors I am missing that it isn't even funny. I may still complain and through out potential solutions though!

[Chenier]

This has been addressed a number of times.

Like any game, BattleMaster needs to have a feeling of progression. If you start out able to do anything and everything, humans have a tendency to try a bunch of stuff, then realize that there's nothing new to look forward to, and get bored.

We need new players, there's no arguing with that. But there's also no point in making a change that will make new players twice as likely to stay after their first day—and four times as likely to leave after their first month.

I know progression is good, and that's namely why I approved of the character limits changes that favored the older players back in the days.

But perhaps the progression just needs to be rethinking. Most realms spend most of the time at peace. Even warrior realms usually need time to rebuild and prepare between wars. And that's not to mention the overwhelming majority of realm who tend to consider wars immoral and would scarcely ever want to start one on their own.

My biggest issue with the way things are right now is that, unless your realm fights a lot, and you choose to be an active troop leader in it, and your army happens to be one of those who see a lot of action, there is absolutely no way to evolve past those restrictions. The only non-combat means to increase H/P are unavailable to those with little H/P.

And where's the progression in being able to do... police work? Woohoo? Is that really a "reward"? Is that "progression"?

It's to be noted that the game already has some reasonable progression mechanics, such as recruitment limits.

[Anaris]

I know progression is good, and that's namely why I approved of the character limits changes that favored the older players back in the days.

But perhaps the progression just needs to be rethinking. Most realms spend most of the time at peace. Even warrior realms usually need time to rebuild and prepare between wars. And that's not to mention the overwhelming majority of realm who tend to consider wars immoral and would scarcely ever want to start one on their own.

My biggest issue with the way things are right now is that, unless your realm fights a lot, and you choose to be an active troop leader in it, and your army happens to be one of those who see a lot of action, there is absolutely no way to evolve past those restrictions. The only non-combat means to increase H/P are unavailable to those with little H/P.

This much, I agree with—that is, that there does need to be more to do in peacetime. However, I'm also working hard to make it more feasible for realms to spend more of their time at war.

I'd really like to see suggestions of something different to allow this progression, though, not just "let everybody do everything possible from the very beginning".

And where's the progression in being able to do... police work? Woohoo? Is that really a "reward"? Is that "progression"?

No. That's a newbie protection, and I'm pretty sure I remember when it first came in. To be honest, I don't know if it's as much necessary today, since I, at least, haven't seen the kinds of abuses that were common back before 2007-ish, with realms routinely forcing new players (sometimes new characters, but I can recall instances of realms with these policies giving a pass to characters of players they already knew were good) to do scut work for weeks or months—region maintenance detail, chasing down monster and undead groups, etc.

[Vellos]

No. That's a newbie protection, and I'm pretty sure I remember when it first came in. To be honest, I don't know if it's as much necessary today, since I, at least, haven't seen the kinds of abuses that were common back before 2007-ish, with realms routinely forcing new players (sometimes new characters, but I can recall instances of realms with these policies giving a pass to characters of players they already knew were good) to do scut work for weeks or months—region maintenance detail, chasing down monster and undead groups, etc.

I remember that as well.

To be fair that was, I feel, largely a product of the battle group system with intensely specialized armies. It often wasn't clear what group a new player or character would best fit into, so home guard armies were kind of a holding tank until they got placed. Not saying it was a good policy for keeping new people engaged necessarily, just I don't think it was so much about them being new and more about battle groups being a different play style than what we have now.

[De-Legro]

I remember that as well.

To be fair that was, I feel, largely a product of the battle group system with intensely specialized armies. It often wasn't clear what group a new player or character would best fit into, so home guard armies were kind of a holding tank until they got placed. Not saying it was a good policy for keeping new people engaged necessarily, just I don't think it was so much about them being new and more about battle groups being a different play style than what we have now.

It was a desire to maximise efficiency at the cost of inclusiveness. Since player numbers are down armies tend to be desperate for numbers which counters it to some degree, and as a player base the obsession with battle efficiency is in general much lower. I would like to think that since so many more of the player base that tends to be running realms and military has matured that such things would be rare enough that the protection probably is more a hindrance now then protecting the majority of new players.