Author Topic: Luria Nova vs The Rest  (Read 31023 times)

Buffalkill

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #15: August 18, 2014, 03:23:29 AM »
I never claimed great friends - I simply claimed allies. In all honesty an alliance across the sea is quite meaningless due to mechanics anyway - one of the reasons we wanted part of the Isles. Morale is a bitch at that distance. Something your new toy ruler in Asylon, Willhelm, seems to fail to understand yet continues to blather on about non-existent requests for support when they were fighting in the north. A) there were never requests made from Grimrog, at least not since Seoras stepped down as ruler
Willhelm wouldn't bring up Luria's consistent inaction if Lurians didn't always pat themselves on the back talking about their endless generosity shown towards Asylon, and Asylon's supposed violation of the alliance. I know for a fact Asylon asked Luria to let them take Poryatown when it was rogue and Luria immediately sent it's own takeover force before Asylon could get to it. Luria also closed its food markets to Asylon, which violated the alliance.


B) morale alone by the time Lurian forces reached them would have caused massive desertion.
You must be joking. Asylon recruited as many troops as they could in Via, and then marched them clear across the continent, fighting monster hordes along the way, then fought a war against 3 enemies, and then marched those same troops south and took over Girich, Mattan Dews, Giask & Grodno. Since then, the distance hasn't stopped Astrum and Swordfell from attacking Asylon twice, nor has it stopped Morek from attacking Luria.

CyberGenesis

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #16: August 18, 2014, 03:32:11 AM »
Distance wasn't the excuse, the King saying "hey, don't worry about it - if we fail here we'll just move south by you guys" was the reason. Y'know since we were sorta fighting a war against three realms already, that is a better excuse than supporting a suicidal bid for land against Astrum and Morek.

Funny that you claim Luria is oblivious to the letters received from the League when they're pretty much always quoted and passed on directly, realm wide. That's why when 'peace negotiations' that required Luria to give D'Hara and Fissoa land on top of that which Barca demanded were passed on - lulz were had by all.

One thing i have learned in this game is that in a war, every side always declares the other side as being at fault, stubborn, hypocritical, guilty, land-grabbing, empire building, etc. Invariably, it's always the other guys fault. Makes sense, because if people didn't feel that way, they wouldn't go to war.

True, and honestly I'm having more fun over the internal pissing contests of this war sometimes than the war itself. Erasmus's undercut to takeover for Julius? Julius ratting out Erasmus reinstating the exiled Rapists of Grodno? Chenier's arrest and SA's complete lack of care? REALLY wasn't expecting that one, was expecting more whining about Priest arrest there. All more lulzy events than the war itself. The story being written in Dwilight is just awesome the last few months


Willhelm wouldn't bring up Luria's consistent inaction if Lurians didn't always pat themselves on the back talking about their endless generosity shown towards Asylon, and Asylon's supposed violation of the alliance. I know for a fact Asylon asked Luria to let them take Poryatown when it was rogue and Luria immediately sent it's own takeover force before Asylon could get to it. Luria also closed its food markets to Asylon, which violated the alliance.

You asked when ours were already on the way. Again, despite your insistence to change the terms Grimrog agreed to for your arrival to the east - your plans were not our plans. The fact you can't keep up and felt you could change your mind -after- your arrival and after you took Matten Dews and Girich stating "we're going to take them (because they're rogue right now) and give them to you as a sign of good will" then proceeded to keep them. You'll excuse us if we took offence.

Quote
You must be joking. Asylon recruited as many troops as they could in Via, and then marched them clear across the continent, fighting monster hordes along the way, then fought a war against 3 enemies, and then marched those same troops south and took over Girich, Mattan Dews, Giask & Grodno. Since then, the distance hasn't stopped Astrum and Swordfell from attacking Asylon twice, nor has it stopped Morek from attacking Luria.

Apologies, but you're purely an idiot. Asylon was granted special mechanics status by devs because of the event. If you forgot that, that's your problem. While it's entirely valid IC argument to make, OOC it's simply asinine to forget that every western realm was granted that status. Otherwise Barca's army would have !@#$ itself before they made it to Luria in the first place

Anaris

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #17: August 18, 2014, 03:32:25 AM »
You must be joking. Asylon recruited as many troops as they could in Via, and then marched them clear across the continent, fighting monster hordes along the way, then fought a war against 3 enemies, and then marched those same troops south and took over Girich, Mattan Dews, Giask & Grodno. Since then, the distance hasn't stopped Astrum and Swordfell from attacking Asylon twice, nor has it stopped Morek from attacking Luria.

Are you serious?

You don't know about the displaced realms bonuses that were explicitly meant to prevent their troops from deserting them until they managed to take new lands?
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Meneldur

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #18: August 18, 2014, 03:33:28 AM »
Everyone else? Pretty much only D'Hara since i've been playing. To be fair, before the event started a great deal of effort was made to piss away claims to the isles and declare a peace with D'Hara and Luria - then the event started and that peace turned into demands from the newly formed league and Barca, an ally of Luria's prior to the last war with D'Hara (and still considered to be an ally by many outside of that war) suddenly showed up in Luria's regions and declared war. During peace negotiations - yet Luria is the only one pointed at being guilty of using Peace Talks as a tactic to hide attacks? Funny

Morek's 'incident' of backstab was one event done in an effort to assist an ally, namely Asylon, during a war. One attack and wardec that lasted roughly a week and was brushed away faster than it started. Hardly the horrific accounts that they claim them to be. I was there, it took us longer to get there an leave than the fight and declaration lasted.

Funny how you refer to the 'leadership filter' when D'hara and the rest of the League are grossly guilty of employing that filter since the beginning of this war. Not to beat the dead horse of shared letters from within, but when confronted with the blatant lies - mysterious silence was the answer.

As someone whose main Dwilight character left D'Hara before the currant post-monster war I have to say the current conflict is not surprising in the slightest; indeed what I find surprising is that apparently the Lurians did not expect it.

D'Hara has long hated Luria due to the constant Lurian claim on the islands, and anyone with any awareness of the Veinsoormoot should not be surprised that Barca chose to support their longest standing Federated allies over Luria. Perhaps there were "peace efforts" being made by Luria shortly before the current conflict (my character had left D'Hara by then), but at least judging by the level of anti-Lurian sentiment while I was there, the Lurians could only have been deluding themselves if they truly believed that no one was going to remember their previous invasion attempts.
The Barcan migration simply allowed D'Hara to extract the revenge they had long desired by utilising their oldest allies against their oldest enemies- perhaps from the Lurian perspective that might seem vindictive, but I can't understand how it can be labelled surprising or hypocritical considering the history.

I can't speak for Fissoa but they have had a history of attempting to resist Lurian domination so its not surprising they jumped on the bandwagon. And as for Morek: you might of have perceived the attack on Morek as merely "helping your allies" but Morek at the time saw it as nothing short of betrayal (at least that was certainly the impression that I got in SA at the time), and as with D'Hara you can't expect characters to just forget old grudges because you don't think its a big deal.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:40:16 AM by Meneldur »

CyberGenesis

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #19: August 18, 2014, 03:48:03 AM »
It's not that it wasn't expected, we were actually fighting another Luria-D'Hara war when the event drove Barca East and started the current Cluster-war.

De-Legro

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #20: August 18, 2014, 03:51:37 AM »
As someone whose main Dwilight character left D'Hara before the currant post-monster war I have to say the current conflict is not surprising in the slightest; indeed what I find surprising is that apparently the Lurians did not expect it.

D'Hara has long hated Luria due to the constant Lurian claim on the islands, and anyone with any awareness of the Veinsoormoot should not be surprised that Barca chose to support their longest standing Federated allies over Luria. Perhaps there were "peace efforts" being made by Luria shortly before the current conflict (my character had left D'Hara by then), but at least judging by the level of anti-Lurian sentiment while I was there, the Lurians could only have been deluding themselves if they truly believed that no one was going to remember their previous invasion attempts.
The Barcan migration simply allowed D'Hara to extract the revenge they had long desired by utilising their oldest allies against their oldest enemies- perhaps from the Lurian perspective that might seem vindictive, but I can't understand how it can be labelled surprising or hypocritical considering the history.

I can't speak for Fissoa but they have had a history of attempting to resist Lurian domination so its not surprising they jumped on the bandwagon. And as for Morek: you might of have perceived the attack on Morek as merely "helping your allies" but Morek at the time saw it as nothing short of betrayal (at least that was certainly the impression that I got in SA at the time), and as with D'Hara you can't expect characters to just forget old grudges because you don't think its a big deal.

It is no surprise that Fissoa may want some payback against Luria, what with the failed attempts a couple of times to force Fissoa to join the Lurian Empire via war.
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Anaris

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #21: August 18, 2014, 03:53:55 AM »
It is no surprise that Fissoa may want some payback against Luria, what with the failed attempts a couple of times to force Fissoa to join the Lurian Empire via war.

Or, y'know, more or less constantly since the first time Luria had enough army to spare from fighting rogues (and enough nobles to spare from infighting) to even try to conquer anyone ;D
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Buffalkill

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #22: August 18, 2014, 04:54:42 AM »
The fact you can't keep up and felt you could change your mind -after- your arrival and after you took Matten Dews and Girich stating "we're going to take them (because they're rogue right now) and give them to you as a sign of good will" then proceeded to keep them. You'll excuse us if we took offence.
Willhelm said no such thing, there was never any discussion, never mind a promise about handing them over. Asylon's solitary goal was to establish an independent homeland and Willhelm was always up front about that.

Apologies, but you're purely an idiot. Asylon was granted special mechanics status by devs because of the event. If you forgot that, that's your problem. While it's entirely valid IC argument to make, OOC it's simply asinine to forget that every western realm was granted that status. Otherwise Barca's army would have !@#$ itself before they made it to Luria in the first place
No need to apologise. I've been called worse things by smarter people. Astrum, Morek & Swordfell are eastern realms, and even if Astrum received a special dispensation because it was partially in the west, they're not receiving it any more. Yet they managed to cover the same distance that you claim would have caused massive desertion with the Lurian troops.

CyberGenesis

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #23: August 18, 2014, 05:12:03 AM »
You're obviously not paying attention - as I have always said, these were arrangements and statements made by Grimrog, not you. To be entirely honest, Willhelm's goals were essentially moot from the moment you took office and reneg'd on every deal Grimrog made.

Buffalkill

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #24: August 18, 2014, 05:21:35 AM »
You're obviously not paying attention - as I have always said, these were arrangements and statements made by Grimrog, not you. To be entirely honest, Willhelm's goals were essentially moot from the moment you took office and reneg'd on every deal Grimrog made.
I'm afraid Grimrog didn't prepare any handover, so I don't know what he and Sholan might have talked about. I do know that it was Axylia and Willhelm who decided on their own to take the rogue regions, and Grimrog supported the plan.

CyberGenesis

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #25: August 18, 2014, 05:47:36 AM »
Well that's nice to know, glad he threw the whole alliance under a bus when he ducked out. Oh well, it happens. Lil late now unless everyone looking for a 'new home' feels like cutting a chunk out of morek, but no - everyone wants to stay where they are in Luria's backyard

De-Legro

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #26: August 18, 2014, 06:08:04 AM »
Well that's nice to know, glad he threw the whole alliance under a bus when he ducked out. Oh well, it happens. Lil late now unless everyone looking for a 'new home' feels like cutting a chunk out of morek, but no - everyone wants to stay where they are in Luria's backyard

That would require breaking several alliances and Federations to be possible though. While as players we can look at Morek and say, move there, convincing realms already at war to change tact and support their fledging allies, whom they have invested troops and time into establishing in their current location, to take territory off a nominally allied realm instead is probably not going to happen.
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CyberGenesis

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #27: August 18, 2014, 06:42:02 AM »
OH GODS NO! DONT BREAK ALLIANCES! Whatever would we do if THAT happened....

Graeth

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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #28: August 18, 2014, 07:19:05 AM »
That would require breaking several alliances and Federations to be possible though. While as players we can look at Morek and say, move there, convincing realms already at war to change tact and support their fledging allies, whom they have invested troops and time into establishing in their current location, to take territory off a nominally allied realm instead is probably not going to happen.

If only there were realms now fighting Luria that had a past history of fighting Morek at any opportunity...
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Re: Luria Nova vs The Rest
« Reply #29: August 18, 2014, 08:00:43 AM »
So while I can see the frustration with the way war decs have happened and the bizarreness of it, I'm with fluegs. This is great. Luria has an involved player base in a great defensive geographic position against distant enemies. I'm sure we'll be fine and its turning out to be a great story along the way. But just to point out a few things that might've been overlooked.

Chenier - you said Cybergenesis was not the leader of Luria. Well, he currently plays Emperor Sholan and was a duke (rp king) previous to that, so was quite in the loop throughout Seoras's reign (who has obviously continued to keep him in the loop) and Alice's before that as one of her favored nobles.

When the monster situation began, Seoras reached out to Grimrog to offer help. Grimrog wanted to assimilate into Luria. Seoras poked at why not keep Asylon alive, but Grimrog insisted on joining Luria to help their war, then colonize elsewhere, possibly as part of that war. Some time later it was noticed Asylon was conquering Corsanctum, so we reached out again to see hwo things were going, and rejoicing at Asylon surviving as a realm. Later, Astrum vs Asylon happened, reached out, and Grimrog said it would be too late for anything we could offer (soldiers, gold, food etc.).

Then Mattan Dews and Girich were taken, to which Seoras inquired what Grimrog desired and glad that they might survive. Seoras later learned from other asylonians that Grimrog intended these regions to join Luria and help in their war effort like he earlier wanted; but the ones doign the takeover apparently thought Luria was intentionally fencing them in by taking Poryatown/Poryatu (see below). Unfortunately, Grimrog was busy at work (got an ooc reply) and then disappeared. I recall some other nobility wrote people in the regions at the time, but we didn't hear any response until around Giask being taken. Seoras has shared the IC parts of this story several times with Asylonians, including King Wilhelm and Glaumring, so its not like it shouldn't be known.

Independently to this, another character in Luria was spurring an effort to restore Poryatu/Poryatown to get more gold and recruits for the war to the south.