Author Topic: Complaint #475, Atamara and #770, East Island: "Placeholder Position"  (Read 1800 times)


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In light of the recent public discussions regarding position placeholders, and two recent Titan cases involving placeholders, the Titans have elected to provide a summary of these two cases, and the placeholder rule in general.

The first case:
Complaint #475
Date: September 7, 2014
Title: 'Placeholder position'
About: Susan Maxwell

A case was reported to the Titans regarding a placeholder noble in the position of General of the Cagilan Empire. Specifically, that the ruler of the realm appointed a noble, without consulting him beforehand, as "... a temporary appointment to end the confusion that our peasants and nobles were having." In addition, the new appointee as general stated: "I intend to hold the post only temporarily until Jean-Luc returns, or another candidate steps forward."

The Titans judged that these actions violated the placeholder rule which forbids temporary (i.e. placeholder) appointments. The Titans applied a punishment to the character of Susan Maxwell in the form of a removal from the position of ruler of the realm, and a restriction against holding that position for 30 days.

The second case:
East Continent
Complaint #770
Date: September 15, 2014
Title: 'Placeholder Position'
About: Erik Eyolf Serpentis

A case was reported to the Titans regarding a placeholder noble in the position of Count of Montijo. When the lord of Montijo was captured, a referendum was automatically held. Eldarion Rahl was elected as the lord of the region. Erik Eyolf, the Duke of Avamar whos duchy contained the region, requested that Eldarion step down as lord so the previous "rightful" lord could be reappointed. Specifically: "While you won the position, the region belong to Lady Rhiannon, that was imprisoned while fighting for Sirion. We are used to give the regions back in this cases, as it happened with Tallbar, I think"

When Eldarion did not step down, Erik Eyolf threatened Eldarion. Specifically: "First I asked... now I'm ordering. Leave Montijo or face the consequences." Erik Eyolf then threatened to have Eldarion banned from the realm. Specifically: "I requested Eldarion to leave Montijo so I can give the region to the former Countess. Now I ordered him. If he refuse to leave, I will request the Judge to convince him. If she fails, then I will run for Judge once again to banish him."

The Titans have judged that these actions violate the placeholder rule in that once a character has been appointed or elected to an office, they become the rightful holder of that office. The previous holder has no rights to that office. They are not the "rightful" holder. If they were "rightful" holder then the game would not have removed them, and they would still have the title, or would have it automatically returned to them.

Given the aggressive nature of the actions, the Titans elected to apply the following punishment to the player of Erik Eyolf Serpentis: Removal from the position of Duke of Avamar, a restriction against holding the position for 30 days, and a 3 day account lock.

In addition to the above case summaries, the Titans would like to make it clear that the use of placeholders for a position in any context is forbidden. Any noble that wins an election for a position, or is appointed to a position, becomes the "rightful" holder of that position. The position, by all rights, belongs to them.

When you appoint characters to positions, you should only appoint them if you want them to be the permanent holder of that position. (Or until the next regular election cycle for elected council positions.) If you are not willing to live with the results of elections, then you should not hold them. Change the government system to use appointed positions, then hold manual referendums to decide whom to appoint on those occasions when you do want to elect someone.

There is a special case that involves elections to fill vacant council positions. Some may view it as an exception to the rule, while others may consider it a normal functioning of game mechanics. The situation is this: If an election is running to fill a vacant council position, a noble may be appointed to the vacant council position to fill that role until the election completes. When the election completes the noble that wins the election will automatically replace the prior position holder. (Unless the noble in the position wins the election, in which case they will keep the position.) If a realm chooses this path the appointed noble is the rightful position holder for the time that they hold the title. Their replacement at the completion of the election is a normal, and expected, game mechanics action. This is not considered a violation of the placeholder rule.

Remember: You cannot make IC laws that contradict or attempt to circumvent game mechanics/rules. It is up to the players to adjust their IC/IG behaviors to comply with the game mechanics and game rules, and to make sure that any rules they make do not conflict with them. If you have any questions regarding the game rules, or would like opinions as to whether or not some particular situation is acceptable, a Q&A forum is available for that purpose:,36.0.html
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