Author Topic: Fine amounts  (Read 13935 times)

Chenier

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #30: September 29, 2014, 11:52:18 PM »
Ah, OK, I see what you mean.

For fines: Not being able to lift fines is intentional, as far as I am aware. It has been discussed in the past. IIRC Tom stated that fines are a minor penalty that don't really have any lasting effect on a character. They pay the fine, it goes away, and that's the end of it. There's no permanent record, and no permanent effect. Personally, I don't have any strong feelings on it either way.

That only stays true if the fine amounts stay small. If a judge wants to slap a 2000 fine on someone, then there should be a way to cancel this fine.
Dit donc camarade soleil / Ne trouves-tu ça pas plutôt con / De donner une journée pareil / À un patron

Eldargard

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #31: October 02, 2014, 05:44:47 PM »
My Idea, though it might be a bit extreme:

* Judge can give a fine of up to 10,000 gold
* Once the fine is issued, the amount of the fine is taken from any bonds the character may have
* If there are not enough bonds in the bank, all the bonds are taken the fine remains with an adjusted ballance
* until the fine is completely paid off, all taxes go straight to paying off the fine until the fine is completely paid off
* the judge has the option to "forgive remaining balance" on any standing fine
* the fined character has the option use gold on hand to pay towards the fine
* the fined character has the potion of requesting that his family pay towards his fine

GundamMerc

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #32: October 06, 2014, 08:01:11 AM »
No, you have misunderstood.

The oath a Lord swears is to his people. Everyone in the region. It is an oath to protect them. Stepping down means that you are abrogating that oath.

No one can release you from it. Once you accept a Lordship, stepping down is, and should be, seen by its people as an admission that you cannot or will not protect them.

I've never heard of it being like that, I've always been told that it was an oath to the Duke that you would ensure the people and region itself were protected and taken care of. A slight, but significant, difference. That is why lords are part of a duchy after all, otherwise there's no reason a lord couldn't just be attached to the realm without any duke over him.

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #33: October 06, 2014, 08:07:26 AM »
yeah, I have to agree - I read that answer and didn't agree at all.

The Lord swears to the Duke. The people are his chattel. If he steps down, for whatever reason, he cares as much about their opinions as he does those of his donkey.

"cannot or will not protect them"? No it doesn't - it means he's moving on to other things. perhaps a better, richer region.

we don't get our honor based on what the peasants think of us

Eirikr

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #34: October 06, 2014, 10:55:02 PM »
I've always understood it to be two-way... but that the one to the peasants was symbolic. A political show to say "Hey, I'm your boss now, accept me because I will do stuff for you."

vonGenf

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #35: October 06, 2014, 11:07:20 PM »
I've always understood it to be two-way... but that the one to the peasants was symbolic. A political show to say "Hey, I'm your boss now, accept me because I will do stuff for you."

Honour is a measure of how well you handle this symbolism. You don't lose anything when you lose a few points of honour, and there is no "real" downside to stepping down from a lordship either.

And if you're stepping down for a promotion, then quickly you'll gain more honour and prestige from this new position than you lost from the old one.

But, this is very interesting but it really has absolutely no bearing on whether the cap for fines should be raised. Do you have an opinion on that?
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Eirikr

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #36: October 06, 2014, 11:53:38 PM »
I wasn't arguing against the loss of honor - if anything, that was meant to be for it. You're breaking an oath at some point, the question is just the severity.

I guess I did forget to comment on the topic... I also didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me for any overlap. Sometimes restating is good anyway. (I'll make an effort to read it tonight, since I've stirred the pot.)

I'd be in favor of raising the cap, maybe even making it unlimited. Canceling it should be possible, too. You see, to me, as a Judge in the past and currently, I find fines to be almost pointless at a functional level. If you put down a fine too big, people can't pay it... which doesn't actually cause any further trouble anyway. Too small, people just pay it and go about their business. Worse yet, the ones who do pay now can't fund their unit and need to ask for gold - oh look, no damage done. The war is more important than the small crime.

What is does do, if you're lucky, is cause a RP stir. People are insulted by the fine and make a big deal about it or people cite it as a reason to shame others. The social effects can be massive if it gets really played out.

Removing the cap allows a greater range of "I'm this upset with you." Slap down a huge fine on someone for the whole realm to see and you'll draw attention from more than just the target. Canceling it allows for a appeals, forgiveness, or other deals (like "Community Service", where a noble is ordered to do Civil Work to make up for it).

Long story short: Since it's a symbolic gesture anyway, let it shine as brightly as the player wants it to.

Kai

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #37: October 09, 2014, 11:38:51 AM »
Maybe fix the imbalanced economy where a huge amount of money has been accumulated.

Eirikr

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #38: October 10, 2014, 06:35:51 AM »
Maybe fix the imbalanced economy where a huge amount of money has been accumulated.
???
I'm not sure if you're saying this suggestion is a possible fix for that problem or that solving that problem directly is more important.

Because, of course, this wouldn't actually solve the problem since collected fines come back to the Ruler on tax day.

Kai

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #39: October 10, 2014, 01:18:08 PM »
I favour the interpretation which doesn't have an obvious hole.

Eirikr

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #40: October 10, 2014, 06:15:41 PM »
I favour the interpretation which doesn't have an obvious hole.

Figured, just making sure.  8)

It's probably for another thread, but any suggestion as to how one accomplishes a significant reduction in the available gold? Beyond just saying to fix it?

EDIT: I know you've written about it in more detail in other threads before, but what about making a single thread with a consolidated idea?

Kai

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #41: October 11, 2014, 12:12:44 AM »
I prefer to watch the world burn etc

Eirikr

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #42: October 12, 2014, 07:09:22 PM »
I prefer to watch the world burn etc

At least it's characteristic