Author Topic: Fine amounts  (Read 5776 times)

vonGenf

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Fine amounts
« Topic Start: September 28, 2014, 12:20:56 AM »
Title: Increase allowed amounts for fines

Summary:

When a Judge imposes a fine on someone, he can choose an amount somewhere between 10 and 200 gold. For many this is little more than a pittance at which they can laugh. I propose that the ceiling be increased.

Details:

I propose additional options up to 1'000 gold. The exact ceiling can be discussed. There probably was a time when 200 gold was already extremely high. I think it is clear that there is on average more gold available in the game now, although I don't know by how much.

Note that I don't ask for the removal of the ceiling. A character who amasses 10'000 pieces of gold should be relatively immune from fines. However it seems it should be possible for them to hurt even a little bit.

Benefits:

Give some teeth to the fine option when dealing with rich characters.

Possible Downsides/Exploits:

This could be used to lay out crippling fine to a knight who doesn't actually have that much gold. This could be fixed if there was a moving cap at, say, the weekly revenue of the knight. However the page makes you decide the amount and the recipient at the same time, so I imagine that would be harder to code.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 05:21:47 PM by vonGenf »
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Chenier

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #1: September 28, 2014, 12:57:59 AM »
Title: Increase allowed amounts for fines

Summary:

When a Judge imposes a fine on someone, he can choose an amount somewhere between 50 and 200 gold. For many this is little more than a pittance at which they can laugh. I propose that the ceiling be increased.

Details:

I propose additional options up to 1'000 gold. The exact ceiling can be discussed. There probably was a time when 200 gold was already extremely high. I think it is clear that there is on average more gold available in the game now, although I don't know by how much.

Note that I don't ask for the removal of the ceiling. A character who amasses 10'000 pieces of gold should be relatively immune from fines. However it seems it should be possible for them to hurt even a little bit.

Benefits:

Give some teeth to the fine option when dealing with rich characters.

Possible Downsides/Exploits:

This could be used to lay out crippling fine to a knight who doesn't actually have that much gold. This could be fixed if there was a moving cap at, say, the weekly revenue of the knight. However the page makes you decide the amount and the recipient at the same time, so I imagine that would be harder to code.

Given that the judge has the power to quite simply ban the knight, I have a hard time seeing any amount as abusive.

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #2: September 28, 2014, 02:11:29 AM »
Rich people can do what they want; the poor have to suck it up.

Pros & Cons I see:

PRO's:
- lots of stupid judges will run around slapping large fines on people to try to control them. These people will then get angry and change realm, take their region out of realm, take their Duchy out of realm, protest judge out of office, have judge assassinated out of office, have judge voted out of office, simply ignore paying the fine and just ignore orders to march with army so they don't need to recruit while stashing their money in a private guild, take advantage of only one fine at a time mechanic to go break the looting laws to pay fine, etc.

All of which brings conflict & more dynamics to realm

(Assuming Celine being annoyed at someone prompted this, have you considered that backlash?)

CON's:
- reinforces many judges misbegotten idea that their job is to sit and control everyone all the time. Rich people tend to be powerful, and get away with things. If you need more than a 200 gold fine, ban them. If you dare.

I have always been against the game supplying mechanics to allow characters to avoid dealing with conflict, and I think this falls in that definition.




vonGenf

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #3: September 28, 2014, 10:45:44 AM »
(Assuming Celine being annoyed at someone prompted this, have you considered that backlash?)

Backlash is fun!
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Eldargard

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #4: September 28, 2014, 07:06:34 PM »
Could the Judge not simple fine a noble repeatedly? Regardless, I like the proposed change.

vonGenf

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #5: September 28, 2014, 07:08:58 PM »
Could the Judge not simple fine a noble repeatedly? Regardless, I like the proposed change.

I think you technically can, but it would feel like going around a game mechanics if there is no repeat offense. Certainly the ceiling is meant to have some meaning.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Chenier

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #6: September 28, 2014, 11:58:07 PM »
I think you technically can, but it would feel like going around a game mechanics if there is no repeat offense. Certainly the ceiling is meant to have some meaning.

You need to wait for the person to pay his fine, at the minimum. Not sure if extra delays exist.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #7: September 29, 2014, 03:49:57 AM »
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Zakilevo

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #8: September 29, 2014, 04:08:42 AM »
Spam that 200 gold fine on Durion constantly until he breaks!

Also, change the whole fine system so if the person refuses to pay the fine, make it automatically take it out from his tax! NOW THAT'S HOW YOU MAKE PEOPLE CRY MUWHAHAHA

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #9: September 29, 2014, 04:30:57 AM »
That would just give another char more chances to win the next election, since he was already punished and by the laws, the first offense mus be a fine of 50 gold. Also, he will reach Sirion and instead of give 6600 gold for investments, he will send everything to his family or divide it in small gifts of 100 gold for each Sirionite... he will be father ;)
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Ravier Nebehn

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #10: September 29, 2014, 06:19:47 AM »

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #11: September 29, 2014, 06:53:18 AM »
Quote
The question is, will you get your own blackjack, with hookers? ;)

That's the intention :)

I'm for it as well. 200 gold can be too much for a Knight, but a Margrave with 6k gold will just laugh at the Judge. And while I can understand why I can't, I would love to have an option to arrest my own nobles  ::)
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!

Jens Namtrah

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #12: September 29, 2014, 07:15:49 AM »
You do.

You lure them deep into your own realm, slap a ban on them, and play, "300 gold to whoever catches the rabbit!"

vonGenf

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #13: September 29, 2014, 07:24:59 AM »
That would just give another char more chances to win the next election, since he was already punished and by the laws, the first offense mus be a fine of 50 gold.

There seems to be a disconnect between the law in your head and what is actually written down. Celine could have fined you anything between 10 and 200 gold. She chose 50.

But that's neither here nor there. This situation made me realise the allowed amounts were too small in general, it doesn't mean it was a specific issue in Sirion.
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Eduardo Almighty

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Re: Fine amounts
« Reply #14: September 29, 2014, 07:31:38 AM »
In truth, every law must be revised... since many of them are just in my head. Erik advocated too much on his own power and since he's not Judge - and since he's not around anymore - Sirion will need a new set of laws... unless people still want to follow "traditions" instead of revised laws.
Now with the Skovgaard Family... and it's gone.
Serpentis again!