Author Topic: Fishing unaffected by season.  (Read 9048 times)

Geronus

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #15: June 02, 2011, 05:03:02 PM »
There's always overfishing to think about too :)

Although you could always rationalize that medieval technology and population levels aren't high enough to overfish the available stocks.

Vaylon Kenadell

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #16: June 02, 2011, 07:43:48 PM »
"Europe", as a whole, probably has a large enough variety of fish to fish all year long, but any particular region won't. The seasons will not be the same, but there are definitely seasons to fishing.

Whales are migratory too, so there is a whaling season.

I think any region with fishing listed as part of its economy has, by definition, enough fish present throughout the year to justify its impact on the region's economy. In many places of the world (and some in Europe), fish were a staple food consumed year-round. I wouldn't mind giving fishing on and off seasons (200% in one season, 25% in another, etc.), but balance-wise I think this particular feature would work better if fishing stayed at a constant 100% throughout the year. Let me explain:

SpringSummerAutumnWinter
Farming7510020025
Fishing100100100100

This table shows that, with each harvest in a particular season, all other things being the same, 50% of food production will come from fishing over the length of a year if the region has both farming and fishing. Lords of these regions will have to stockpile food in warehouses throughout the year, not just in particular seasons, making them vulnerable to looting year-round -- although they will also be able to recover faster than regions that depend on farming. While it's true that regions with fishing might be able to support inland populations during a time of famine, it will take careful planning and a cooperative lord; uncooperative ones might use it to their advantage.

How would you like to set the seasons for fishing? Remember, too, that these settings will be used in every region that has fishing, regardless of their climate or geography.

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #17: June 02, 2011, 07:53:14 PM »
Don't forget, some regions also have hunting, and that might also require separate rates to account for seasonal migrations and hibernations.

But for balance, we should also vary rates, or at least the base harvest amount, to account for regions that either have only farming/fishing/hunting as a food source, and those that have some combination of the aforementioned. This means that, while it is obvious that a region with a combination of those three should have the advantage in food stability, it should, as compensation, have a lower maximum. That means farming only regions should have the highest maximum food production, with also the highest seasonal variation. Fishing would come in second, but still significantly lower than the farming maximum. I would say that the fishing maximum, which would be as well the minimum since we want this to be stable, would be around the same as farming's summer harvest numbers. Hunting would have the lowest maximum, comparable to about farming's spring numbers. It would have lower variations in all seasons but winter though, when it would drop significantly, like for farming.

In this way, a farming only region is still desirable as it can provide potentially the best harvest for those with good timing and like some risk. Combination regions can be as desirable for stability without making exclusive regions inferior. And in this way fishing and hunting exclusive regions have their own unique flavors as well, though hunting sounds like it will be pretty inferior on its own. It makes sense though, if you think about hunting-exclusive places though.

Chenier

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #18: June 03, 2011, 01:05:18 AM »
Don't forget, some regions also have hunting, and that might also require separate rates to account for seasonal migrations and hibernations.

But for balance, we should also vary rates, or at least the base harvest amount, to account for regions that either have only farming/fishing/hunting as a food source, and those that have some combination of the aforementioned. This means that, while it is obvious that a region with a combination of those three should have the advantage in food stability, it should, as compensation, have a lower maximum. That means farming only regions should have the highest maximum food production, with also the highest seasonal variation. Fishing would come in second, but still significantly lower than the farming maximum. I would say that the fishing maximum, which would be as well the minimum since we want this to be stable, would be around the same as farming's summer harvest numbers. Hunting would have the lowest maximum, comparable to about farming's spring numbers. It would have lower variations in all seasons but winter though, when it would drop significantly, like for farming.

In this way, a farming only region is still desirable as it can provide potentially the best harvest for those with good timing and like some risk. Combination regions can be as desirable for stability without making exclusive regions inferior. And in this way fishing and hunting exclusive regions have their own unique flavors as well, though hunting sounds like it will be pretty inferior on its own. It makes sense though, if you think about hunting-exclusive places though.

Sounds like more trouble to code than it is worth...

I wouldn't say no to the food system being more complex, though, if the devs will it. Bushels of generic "food" only leave so much room for an interesting trading game.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 07:15:42 AM by Chénier »
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Indirik

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #19: June 03, 2011, 02:25:05 AM »
No matter how (and if) the food system is revamped to cover how much food is produced based on the source, there have never been any discussions regarding separating the end product into different types of food. So you won't be able to trade 100 bushels of grain and 300 pounds of fish. You will still just have "400 bushels of food".

However, additional trade goods are on the radar, including wood, stone, metal, and manufactured goods.
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Chenier

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #20: June 03, 2011, 07:16:58 AM »
No matter how (and if) the food system is revamped to cover how much food is produced based on the source, there have never been any discussions regarding separating the end product into different types of food. So you won't be able to trade 100 bushels of grain and 300 pounds of fish. You will still just have "400 bushels of food".

However, additional trade goods are on the radar, including wood, stone, metal, and manufactured goods.

I sure hope cities will produce a lot of manufactured good, D'Hara already pays a heapload to import food, I don't even want to begin to think about adding wood, stone, and metal to that...
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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #21: June 03, 2011, 12:05:50 PM »
I wonder who suggested different types of food. I certainly didn't.

Indirik

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #22: June 03, 2011, 01:54:06 PM »
I wonder who suggested different types of food.
Could that be because you really don't pay attention to other people's posts? Or have you put Chénier on ignore?
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Shizzle

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #23: June 03, 2011, 01:58:07 PM »
Food with food sauce  8)

The new tradeables sound very interesting, I just hope it won't require as much micromanagement as food. For instance you should be able to direct all the resources your region produces straight to a city to refine them, instead of creating shipments every week or so.

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #24: June 03, 2011, 02:20:27 PM »
Could that be because you really don't pay attention to other people's posts? Or have you put Chénier on ignore?

After what he said about me in those religion and BT invasion threads? Also...it's kind of hard to see what he posted when initially his post included his comment in the same blue box of quote as mine.

Indirik

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #25: June 03, 2011, 02:30:17 PM »
If you're going to ignore posts in the thread, you could at least refrain from making snarky comments in that thread.
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Anaris

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #26: June 03, 2011, 02:30:54 PM »
Food with food sauce  8)

That's better than a whip wine roast, made of masterfully minced whip wine, exceptionally minced whip wine, exceptionally minced whip wine, and masterfully minced whip wine...

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Re: Fishing unaffected by season.
« Reply #27: June 03, 2011, 02:35:09 PM »
If you're going to ignore posts in the thread, you could at least refrain from making snarky comments in that thread.

Actually, when I checked this morning on my iPod, Chenier's post really was included under the quote box and I didn't notice that he actually posted until you said so.

« Last Edit: Today at 01:15:42 by Chénier »

I'm assuming that was him noticing too.