Author Topic: Too much peace too much for Dwilight  (Read 70027 times)

Chenier

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Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Topic Start: June 03, 2011, 07:09:33 AM »
Dwilight is just completely different from the other continents, its geography makes "too much peace" way too brutal.

I think Dwilight should simply be completely spared from the mechanic.
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Adriddae

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #1: June 03, 2011, 07:12:13 AM »
You would think the soldiers would like the peace on Dwilight. Pay in silver and gold without doing much other than marching around and training. Better than getting stomped/eaten by monsters.

Chenier

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #2: June 03, 2011, 07:18:17 AM »
You would think the soldiers would like the peace on Dwilight. Pay in silver and gold without doing much other than marching around and training. Better than getting stomped/eaten by monsters.

Indeed. Staying at home to protect their wives and kids from the monsters, instead of going about to get killed in far-away lands, should they even make it that far.
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Foundation

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #3: June 03, 2011, 08:10:00 AM »
Wait wait wait, too much peace only happens when almost no combat occurs, including against rogue.
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Perth

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #4: June 03, 2011, 08:42:06 AM »
I agree with Chénier.

Though I hate Too Much Peace altogether on any continent.

But especially on Dwilight it is silly.
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Jens Namtrah

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #5: June 03, 2011, 08:49:19 AM »

IF your realm is quite small, YOU DO NOT GET "too much peace" - you are exempted.

Monster battles are worth less than realm battles, but if you are fighting a one or two per week you are not going to get this. I forget the precise threshholds.

We wrote this code around the same time Dwilight came out, and we were very specific to exempt any small, "struggling to get going" type realms.

Furthermore, you need to get these repeatedly before there is any noticeable effect on your realm.

I'm rather surprised that anyone on Dwilight could even get one of these messages, given the monster situation. What realm are you playing in?

dustole

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #6: June 03, 2011, 10:50:36 AM »
I've seen TMP in Morek and in Astrum.   They only lasted a turn or two and I don't think they had devastating effect, I can see that LE might have some problems with it from time to time. 
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Anaris

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #7: June 03, 2011, 12:41:52 PM »
TMP has also been changed since it was first implemented: now, rather than hitting region stats directly, it simply makes your acceptable tax rate lower. It also makes your troops' training decay.

This should result in your being less able to fight, while still making it highly unlikely that TMP alone can kill you.
Timothy Collett

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jaune

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #8: June 03, 2011, 01:58:54 PM »
I think hitting to soldiers training is too harsh atm. And it should not go under what your unit had when they were recruited.

Even when Darka is at war, but sure we had long refit times... so TMP will kick in... it REALLY hits to training atm.

It will make RC´s which have good training almost useless. Better recruit already sucky cheap units.

I hope it would be tweaked a bit less harsh when it effects training, rather hit morale?
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Anaris

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #9: June 03, 2011, 02:27:54 PM »
I think hitting to soldiers training is too harsh atm. And it should not go under what your unit had when they were recruited.

Actually, it's impossible for the game to tell this.

Quote
Even when Darka is at war, but sure we had long refit times... so TMP will kick in... it REALLY hits to training atm.

It will make RC´s which have good training almost useless. Better recruit already sucky cheap units.

I hope it would be tweaked a bit less harsh when it effects training, rather hit morale?

Hitting morale would give you even bigger problems on long marches, trust me. 

Frankly, Tom has been trying for years to make it hard for people to run long-distance wars.  If this is what it takes to get people to fight closer to home, rather than insisting that they ought to be able to fight on the other side of the continent, because that's what we did in 2002 and that was the Golden Age, then so be it.

Finally, once this hits stable, I think you should actually watch the effects before you declare that everything is doom and there's no hope for the game anymore.
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Jens Namtrah

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #10: June 03, 2011, 02:36:49 PM »
I think hitting to soldiers training is too harsh atm. ... it REALLY hits to training atm.

Could you explain to us all of the effects on training atm?

When we first wrote this code, people were complaining it hit too hard - BEFORE WE EVEN RELEASED IT. Before they knew what effect it would have, they were already grumping that it was too strong.

Can you quote us some training effects please? Actual numbers you've seen?

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Finally, once this hits stable,

???  I wrote this code 3 years ago. It's still not released on stable? Has there been some big change, and this is a different set of code from what I'm thinking?

Indirik

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #11: June 03, 2011, 02:42:26 PM »
Could you explain to us all of the effects on training atm?
If your realm gets hit by TMP, eventually the training rating for military units will start to fall.

Quote
When we first wrote this code, people were complaining it hit too hard - BEFORE WE EVEN RELEASED IT. Before they knew what effect it would have, they were already grumping that it was too strong.

Can you quote us some training effects please? Actual numbers you've seen?
I can't. My Darka character got wounded soon after we started getting the notices. Also, I don't routinely track my unit's training values. I'm sure that other people can. I've heard rumors that people who have experienced extended (multi-week long, or longer) bouts of TMP have had their unit's training dropped all the way to 1% or so.

Quote
???  I wrote this code 3 years ago. It's still not released on stable? Has there been some big change, and this is a different set of code from what I'm thinking?
Tim was referring to the modified effects, not the original ones. However, these modified effects have actually now been implemented on all islands. I think it just slipped Tim's mind that they had actually been implemented on stable as well as testing.
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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #12: June 03, 2011, 02:47:17 PM »
Quote
Tom has been trying for years to make it hard for people to run long-distance wars.  If this is what it takes to get people to fight closer to home

Actually, the purpose of this code was to create more fighting.

People like jaune and his friends on Atamara had gridlocked the island so badly with peace and paper wars that everyone was complaining all the time. This was code Tom had on the back burner that we dusted off as a countermeasure to the Atamaran Ruler's Cabal. It was a little broader than that, of course, but it came about because of the situation on Atamara.

So jaune, you prolly won't too far with your complaints  ::)

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #13: June 03, 2011, 11:29:58 PM »
I'm pretty sure TMP has its origins in the year-long peace on EC, where Tom had to step in and threaten to lightning-bolt rulers if they didn't start some wars soon.

Chenier

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Re: Too much peace too much for Dwilight
« Reply #14: June 03, 2011, 11:54:56 PM »
Wait wait wait, too much peace only happens when almost no combat occurs, including against rogue.

We fight over food, not rogues or other armies. Should we be punished because our struggle for survival doesn't involve a lot of battles through strength of arms, but rather diplomacy, initiative, heavy administration, and profitable trade agreements?
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