Attack on Sasrhas!

[Kainaq]

Some realms need to die. I don't see what's fun in protecting OW's destruction.

The last time i saw this much hate against a realm was Red span.  What on earth did OW do to warrant being destroyed.

[Antonine]

The last time i saw this much hate against a realm was Red span.  What on earth did OW do to warrant being destroyed.

Sheltered the undesirables and traitors of half the continent. Broke treaties and stabbed people in the back. Picked the wrong side in every single war for the past five RL years. Generally were a silent and !@#$ realm to have a character in. Never really did anything to make friends with anyone.

Also, they've been on the verge of collapsing for the past 3 RL years. There's an element of "for god's sake let's just get the inevitable over with".

[Anaris]

Also, they've been on the verge of collapsing for the past 3 RL years. There's an element of "for god's sake let's just get the inevitable over with".

And frankly, if Coralynth hadn't pulled the crap that they did, and just let Sorraine fight OW themselves, there's a good chance you'd already be done with it.

(Leaving aside the earlier comments about Sartanians being particularly bad at war... )

[Chenier]

The last time i saw this much hate against a realm was Red span.  What on earth did OW do to warrant being destroyed.

Though others do hate it, I don't really care about it, I joined the FEI far after they did whatever they did.

However, it's such a small and miserable realm. I don't think these kinds of realms are worth saving, I think they just suck up nobles that could help liven up more promising realms.

[Antonine]

So Velax has abdicated as Emperor.

And just two days later, Martin steps down as head of the Church of Sartan in favour of one of his strongest critics following pressure from the church elders.

Where next for FEI?

[Qyasogk]

Well, it seems my extended absence from these forums has meant I missed out on quite a conversation... It's quite an interesting example of extreme diplomatic myopia.

Let me first repeat Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence." or some such.

It seems many of you have been rulers of your realms for a long time. You are experienced rulers, you've seen how it's been done in the past, and you have expectations for how things will be done in the future.

The Queen of Coralynth, is a new ruler of a relatively isolated realm. Inexperienced rulers make mistakes (and this is not only my first character I ever created for BM, but also my first character to ever become a ruler.)

What you all see as a dishonorable sneak attack gangbang against a defenseless Ohnar West. What actually happened was two realms who'd never fought a war together without Emperor Arcaea orchestrating every battle, totally bungled it up. Sorraine was impatient for the attack and had arrived too early. Coralynth had mostly new nobles and had trouble keeping all the noobs moving together. The attack was supposed to happen, but we were uncoordinated and had to retreat and try again. The Taikun meanwhile wais wailing about the invasion, but we'd already ordered a retreat. It was a cluster!@#$.

Oh, but the cluster!@#$ had only just begun. Those who complained about the so-called gangbang (2 on 1 is not a gangbang, you guys) eagerly all joined their own gangbang against us, led by the Arcaean behemoth, which our entire existence we'd been valiantly defending and supporting.

So to a point, to defend a so-called defenseless realm (that won all its battles against us), Arcaea now has set its sites on us, a realm only slightly larger and less defenseless than OW.

It's amusing that Baranion's view is that Sartanians must be stopped from dominating FEI.... when what is actually going on is that the Sartanians are in a real danger of being exterminated across the continent.

So just to reiterate the point: Everyone keeps saying that Coralynth is dishonorable because we launched a sneak attack. But that's not what happened. I was all set to declare war, when we (Sorraine and Coralynth) bungled our movements. When we finally did declare war, we did so a full day before our forces arrived.

That we've payed for all of this by losing a region, losing our most trusted friend and ally, and even our relations with Sorraine are fraying do to the REAL gangbang against them....

All that said, as a player, this is the wildest and most unpredictable time I've had playing on the FEI since I joined. The stakes are huge, the drama high, the betrayals brutal....

If my other players like Chenier had stuck out the brief lull, they'd really be having a great time right now.

[Anaris]

It's amusing that Baranion's view is that Sartanians must be stopped from dominating FEI.... when what is actually going on is that the Sartanians are in a real danger of being exterminated across the continent.

So far as he's concerned, that is a perfectly acceptable outcome.

Based on what he has heard, the Church of Sartan explicitly advocates converting all nonbelievers by the sword. In other words, as long as it is allowed to exist with that as one of its tenets, it will always try to take over the continent.

On the other hand, Baranion has no interest in taking over the entire continent. So while from a Sartanist perspective, yes, what Baranion wants is obviously unacceptable, he's not being hypocritical in any way.

So just to reiterate the point: Everyone keeps saying that Coralynth is dishonorable because we launched a sneak attack. But that's not what happened. I was all set to declare war, when we (Sorraine and Coralynth) bungled our movements. When we finally did declare war, we did so a full day before our forces arrived.

Except that you (assuming you're Eva—sorry, I don't always know which forum names match which families ) flat-out lied to the entire continent about your intentions. Ingall asked Eva when Coralynth's forces were first sighted if they were planning to attack, and Eva said no. I don't recall the exact wording at this point, but it was pretty unequivocal.

All that said, as a player, this is the wildest and most unpredictable time I've had playing on the FEI since I joined. The stakes are huge, the drama high, the betrayals brutal....

If my other players like Chenier had stuck out the brief lull, they'd really be having a great time right now.

This, I agree with wholeheartedly. I did not see all this coming when Cathay finally surrendered.

Oddly enough, I think that the single event that's created the most uncertainty and fun was Velax stepping down. I just wish he'd stayed on the continent to be able to participate in the fun time he sparked.

[Eirikr]

Oddly enough, I think that the single event that's created the most uncertainty and fun was Velax stepping down. I just wish he'd stayed on the continent to be able to participate in the fun time he sparked.

Agreed, but I do think if he'd stuck around (unless with a new character or something), he'd have been a big weight holding back the events - even without the title.

[Anaris]

Agreed, but I do think if he'd stuck around (unless with a new character or something), he'd have been a big weight holding back the events - even without the title.

I'd be happy enough if he stuck around with a different character—one who explicitly disavowed a direct familial connection to Velax so there was no succession issue.

[Qyasogk]

Based on what he has heard, the Church of Sartan explicitly advocates converting all nonbelievers by the sword. In other words, as long as it is allowed to exist with that as one of its tenets, it will always try to take over the continent.

Whoever told your character that was deranged or had an axe to grind. The only realm Sartanists want to "convert" would be the Way of the Dragon of Ohnar West. And as far as my character understands, the only reason why they were considered evil is the the first place was because they were originally the enemy of Arcaea. So you see the irony of attacking the enemy of Arcaea, only to have Arcaea side with them against their former allies....

Except that you (assuming you're Eva—sorry, I don't always know which forum names match which families ) flat-out lied to the entire continent about your intentions. Ingall asked Eva when Coralynth's forces were first sighted if they were planning to attack, and Eva said no. I don't recall the exact wording at this point, but it was pretty unequivocal.

Except that, in this case the exact wording is pretty important. It didn't help that Velax interpreted he exchange in exactly the same way you did, which happens to be completely inaccurate. The Taikun told everyone on the Ruler channel that Sasrhas was being attacked, but we had already ordered a retreat, due to our bungled coordination. And there was a real question of whether or not we would attack, my marshal specifically advised me not to, in fact.

So I was not lying or being deceptive when I said that no attack had taken place. Clearly though, responding to the Taikun at all was a mistake, because it became the thing everyone could point to and say, "Coralynth is horrible!" But when Emperor Velax calls you a liar on the ruler channel, it doesn't really matter whether you actually are. It was also clear that at least partly he was doing this for OOC reasons in order to shake things up a bit.

What the Emperor did not expect was that we would take his betrayal so personally. We went from being his most ardent friends and supporters to... "!@#$ the Emperor" (to borrow a phrase from Sandor Clegane).

And my character told the Emperor straight up, if he kept going down this path it would spell the Doom of Arcaea... I guess we'll have to wait and see whether Eva was a prophet or that it was just wishful thinking. But Arcaea has had a LOT of issues ever since.

[Anaris]

Whoever told your character that was deranged or had an axe to grind. The only realm Sartanists want to "convert" would be the Way of the Dragon of Ohnar West.

That's as may be, but it's what he understands. And no behaviour he's seen so far from Sartanism has suggested anything else.

Except that, in this case the exact wording is pretty important. It didn't help that Velax interpreted he exchange in exactly the same way you did, which happens to be completely inaccurate. The Taikun told everyone on the Ruler channel that Sasrhas was being attacked, but we had already ordered a retreat, due to our bungled coordination. And there was a real question of whether or not we would attack, my marshal specifically advised me not to, in fact.

So I was not lying or being deceptive when I said that no attack had taken place. Clearly though, responding to the Taikun at all was a mistake, because it became the thing everyone could point to and say, "Coralynth is horrible!" But when Emperor Velax calls you a liar on the ruler channel, it doesn't really matter whether you actually are. It was also clear that at least partly he was doing this for OOC reasons in order to shake things up a bit.

I'm sorry, but that's a lawyer's response. Just because the words you wrote were technically true doesn't mean they weren't intentionally deceptive. It was obvious to everyone on the continent that Coralynth was planning to join the war against Ohnar West, even though it was already apparently outmatched by Sorraine. Your mistake was not in responding to Taikun Ingall, it was in the actions that led up to the question in the first place.

If you wanted to be seen as honourable, you could have tried declaring war before the last possible second. Like, for instance, Baranion did.

A declaration of war isn't just a mechanical thing that lets you attack people you want to attack, you know. It's also a formality that declares your intentions. As one might want to do for a realm that one respects (or should be expected to show respect for publicly, whatever one's private feelings), such as a fellow member of one's Empire.

And my character told the Emperor straight up, if he kept going down this path it would spell the Doom of Arcaea... I guess we'll have to wait and see whether Eva was a prophet or that it was just wishful thinking. But Arcaea has had a LOT of issues ever since.

They have, but I don't think Coralynth can really take much credit. Dawn mishandled both her allies and her Duke pretty abominably, and now, from the sounds of it, the internal strife is pretty much over Sartanism.

Nothing to do with Coralynth.

[Kainaq]

Ok im going to stop you right there.  I have tried to keep this as ooc as possible but seeing as how multiple rulers are using this forum to openly mislead (and in some cases out right lie) just to promote or justify there IC actions im going to lay down whats actually been happening IC.

They have, but I don't think Coralynth can really take much credit. Dawn mishandled both her allies and her Duke pretty abominably, and now, from the sounds of it, the internal strife is pretty much over Sartanism.

In an effort to prevent the ganging up mentality culture that has infested BM like a plague i tried to limit the number of enemies Sorraine would be fighting at any one time as frankly i didn't believe that the first realm that actually tried war after the political reset should get punished by a four on one gangbang just because they attacked first.  Especially as the reasons for the two mentioned realms that joined the war after arcaea kept changing there answers every time i asked why they had joined the war.... (first stating it was outrage against coralynth.... then stating it was in responce to two reams ganging up on a smaller realm.....then stating it was a war against sartan)  As such when Cathay and Zonasa joined the war i attempted to settle a treaty between Ohnar west and Sorraine.  I then sent a further message ooc to explain my reasons for this.  A few days later a treaty was semi finalized amongst the "allied" realms, no complaint was made by Zonasa or Cathay during this process.  A final draft was written up and a full day after that it was sent to the ruler of Sorraine.  IT WAS ONLY AFTER THEN THAT SUDDENLY YOU HAD ISSUES WITH IT, Baranion then wrote several passive aggressive and generically demeaning letters about how Arcaea had stepped on his sovereignty (stating that his character was ill so im guessing  he has missed a few turns so had not seen the drafts).

Im sorry but to put it bluntly if your going to say that i "mishandled my allies"  just because you were afk thats on you.  If you had lost a region due to missing a few turns you cant just say "can you give me back that region i didn't log in yesterday because i was ill"  Could i have waited longer?   Probably, but thats largely down to inexperience.  Honestly the jist of the draft had been the same for over a week i felt sure everything had been covered.  This has been my first time as a ruler of a realm; and as im sure you have gathered i had plenty of inside drama inside the realm to deal with as well as outside, i didn't really give additional timing much thought...

As for my mishandling the situation with Claudio.....  he had sabotaged the main army during a time of war, caused vast amounts of strife even before the current crisis including but not limited to threatening to punish players for not moving out of his duchy when they didn't log on, citing promises that know one in the council new anything about and when dialogue and communication was attempted left ultimatums saying he was going to Secede anyway regardless of what anyone thought going as far as to bring a foreign powers military to hold his hand while doing so (not to mention this was after he ran a failed election campaign stating that he had no intention of seceding).

[Anaris]

Ok im going to stop you right there.  I have tried to keep this as ooc as possible but seeing as how multiple rulers are using this forum to openly mislead (and in some cases out right lie) just to promote or justify there IC actions im going to lay down whats actually been happening IC.

Please never call someone a liar unless you have a strong reason to believe that they are telling deliberate falsehoods.

As such when Cathay and Zonasa joined the war i attempted to settle a treaty between Ohnar west and Sorraine.  I then sent a further message ooc to explain my reasons for this.  A few days later a treaty was semi finalized amongst the "allied" realms, no complaint was made by Zonasa or Cathay during this process.  A final draft was written up and a full day after that it was sent to the ruler of Sorraine.  IT WAS ONLY AFTER THEN THAT SUDDENLY YOU HAD ISSUES WITH IT, Baranion then wrote several passive aggressive and generically demeaning letters about how Arcaea had stepped on his sovereignty (stating that his character was ill so im guessing  he has missed a few turns so had not seen the drafts).

You sent out a draft on a weekend, which any BattleMaster player of longer than 3 months should know are times of lower activity, which would bind two realms over which you had only the loosest jurisdiction to a course of action that was not necessarily in their best interest. Then you decided that silence meant approval, and waited less than 3 full days (IIRC) before declaring that it was a done deal.

There are several problems here, but from where I sit, it looks like the biggest one is that you assumed that because Velax was Emperor, and Dawn is his successor, Dawn gets to dictate what other realms of the Empire do unilaterally.

Velax never operated that way, so this felt like a serious slap in the face.

Furthermore, when dealing with just about anyone, you should really make sure that you've got positive agreement (rather than just a lack of objection) before doing something as serious as saying that another realm isn't allowed to fight a war anymore. (Especially on a continent where there are very limited possibilities for war, which, at the time, the FEI most definitely was.)

Probably, but thats largely down to inexperience. 

And I'm perfectly willing to make some allowances for inexperience. (Baranion somewhat less so.) But you say this as if it doesn't even matter that you might possibly have done something not-quite-perfectly, and then continue to basically insult me, as if the whole situation was something I schemed up to upset you.

As for my mishandling the situation with Claudio.....  he had sabotaged the main army during a time of war, caused vast amounts of strife even before the current crisis including but not limited to threatening to punish players for not moving out of his duchy when they didn't log on, citing promises that know one in the council new anything about and when dialogue and communication was attempted left ultimatums saying he was going to Secede anyway regardless of what anyone thought going as far as to bring a foreign powers military to hold his hand while doing so (not to mention this was after he ran a failed election campaign stating that he had no intention of seceding).

I don't pretend to know everything that went on within Arcaea leading up to the secession, but it's painfully clear that you mishandled him. I was in communication with Claudio intermittently throughout, and there wasn't the slightest hint of him being dissatisfied with Arcaea until you tried to deny his right to secede at the time of his choosing. His duchy would still be part of Arcaea now if you had handled that situation properly.

And, as you say, it's down to inexperience. And frankly, I think anyone expecting a player who's never had a ruler character before to take rulership in Arcaea of all places, in the middle of the war that was already heating up, and get everything to come out perfect, is delusional. Given that you've never had a ruler before, I'd say you're probably doing pretty well.

But that doesn't change the situation IC, or make the criticisms I've made of how Dawn handled things any less valid. It just explains why they happened.

[vonGenf]

I don't pretend to know everything that went on within Arcaea leading up to the secession, but it's painfully clear that you mishandled him. I was in communication with Claudio intermittently throughout, and there wasn't the slightest hint of him being dissatisfied with Arcaea until you tried to deny his right to secede at the time of his choosing. His duchy would still be part of Arcaea now if you had handled that situation properly.

And, as you say, it's down to inexperience. And frankly, I think anyone expecting a player who's never had a ruler character before to take rulership in Arcaea of all places, in the middle of the war that was already heating up, and get everything to come out perfect, is delusional. Given that you've never had a ruler before, I'd say you're probably doing pretty well.

But that doesn't change the situation IC, or make the criticisms I've made of how Dawn handled things any less valid. It just explains why they happened.

I am going to come out and say that I am very, very glad that Arcaea has split up following IC events that have arisen organically from IC actions, rather than in an organized OOC fashion.

After the countless forum posts advocating for splitting Arcaea for OOC reasons, I think it's in very bad taste to come back and say "it's your fault, if you had played better it wouldn't have happened".

[Indirik]

The more pieces that are carved out of Arcaea, the better. And then Sorraine, and Cathay, too.