Per Vassal Taxes and Stipends

[Shizzle]

Or... Lord 1, your region sucks but it's there and it's ours so I'm not taxing you but Lord 2, you're region's rich and I want a piece of it!

Which is where percentages come in.

Besides, you could tax the whole Duchy at the highest rate, and use the extra money to give presents to the Lords that you do like Or buy their grain for a higher price. Or pay for their infrastructure.

[Kai]

I think giving people buttons which arbitrarily give/take away gold with very little counterplay or interaction is bad. The only reason this is an improvement over the current systems is that it adds the 'give' button, which is better than only having 'take' but still worse than having neither.

[Eldargard]

Which is where percentages come in.

Besides, you could tax the whole Duchy at the highest rate, and use the extra money to give presents to the Lords that you do like Or buy their grain for a higher price. Or pay for their infrastructure.

True - this is what we can do now. However, this takes extra time and effort on the liege's part and requires them to head to a bank to redistribute the money every tax day. I would rather just have it taken care of while I do more interesting things (write fun messages, scheme, train, wage war).

[Eldargard]

I think giving people buttons which arbitrarily give/take away gold with very little counterplay or interaction is bad. The only reason this is an improvement over the current systems is that it adds the 'give' button, which is better than only having 'take' but still worse than having neither.

I am all for character interaction. I have a lot of fun writing messages and getting into politics, religion, debate and all that. Proper, realistic interactions are awesome. I just can not see how having my Knight or Lord character asking for hand-outs is either proper or realistic behavior for "the highest of nobility". I would rather spend less time dealing with this and more time doing fun stuff.

If we are determined to give most of the wealth to a select few within each realm, why not give them an easy way to pass that gold around in a simple, realistic and easy way? The gold is already flowing up then back down, I just want to automate the process as much as possible!If this is not the way (which I am totally cool with), then perhaps another way would work.

[Shizzle]

I'm just disagreeing on the premise that automation leaves to more time for other things and therefor is a good thing. I think the lack of automation is what stimulates interaction, free choice and especially the occasion for things to go wrong.

Imagine following armies was automated. People wouldn't have to sign in every turn to press the travel button, we would have more coordinated and bigger battles, and players could focus on writing battle roleplays! Great, no? /s

[Eldargard]

True. I totally see your point: not everything that could be automated should be automated and everyone is likely to have a different idea of what tasks are good candidates for automation.

I do, however, feel that this proposal is worth considering for two reasons. First, it does not take player agency away. You can chose to use it or not, it might make life easier or you can opt to avoid it. Second, it is focused on automating what I feel is a secondary function of the game, something that most do just because they have to in order to accomplish X, X being what they are really wanting.

[Constantine]

All these threads lately.. I think it's a slippery slope.
These players don't enjoy doing this, those players don't enjoy doing that.
Remove manual redistribution of gold, remove seasons, remove classes, remove juggling food between provinces.
What shall we be left with in the end?
Just bear in mind that if you personally don't enjoy something it doesn't mean it's redundant.

[Eldargard]

I agree on all points. However, I will still propose ideas for what I think would be improvements but I leave it for the Devs and community to like them, hate them, ignore them as they will.

[Eldargard]

I am not sure how much this suggestion takes away from the game though.

Take Aways:
1. The need for nobles to repeatedly ask their liege or treasury council for gold.
2. The need for lieges or treasure council members to go to a bank as often to ensure their nobles have the money they need.


Add Ins:
1. An extra facet to the vassal/liege relationship.
2. The ability to individuals tax ones vassals.

It doesn't see to me that a whole lot is lost. All the same, it would have wide spread repercussions and might not be a good idea at all. I like it but I am also happy that it will be the Devs and communities job to decide if it is right for Battlemaster.

[Shizzle]

Also couldn't you offer stipends through guild infrastructure? Sponsors put in what they want to spread out, members come to the guild house to take what they need

[Eldargard]

That sounds like a very plausible work around. Certainly lower maintenance than constant bank transfers but I kind of like tying the stipend to the whole vassal/liege agreement.

That being said, this has some seriously cool potential. Set up Different ranks with different funding levels. One level grants 100G, the next 75G, 50G, 25G and so on. Have each knight of the realm who needs the boost join and get assigned to the appropriate level based on how much money the need to maintain a decent unit. Sponsors just keep pumping money into it.

This could even make it possible to pay knights to serve and fight even without a lord or estate (hedge knights). A lot of fun potential here!

[Shizzle]

That sounds like a very plausible work around. Certainly lower maintenance than constant bank transfers but I kind of like tying the stipend to the whole vassal/liege agreement.

That being said, this has some seriously cool potential. Set up Different ranks with different funding levels. One level grants 100G, the next 75G, 50G, 25G and so on. Have each knight of the realm who needs the boost join and get assigned to the appropriate level based on how much money the need to maintain a decent unit. Sponsors just keep pumping money into it.

This could even make it possible to pay knights to serve and fight even without a lord or estate (hedge knights). A lot of fun potential here!

The main drawbacks are that guild treasuries are tied to chapter houses and money transfers are not automatic. E.g Sponsor Kepler will have to put money in Chapter Keplerstan (manually) and Knight Hedgehog will have to withdraw (manually) from the same guildhouse.

Also you'll lose (a tiny bit) on guild maintenance. And good luck making your sponsor pay on time I've had a few guilds set up for reasons of money distribution, and honestly I think it's easier to just send over bonds. The Guild approach is nocer, though.

[Eldargard]

All good points. Those rich Dukes and their grasping ways!

[Indirik]

I don't think I've ever seen a guild designed for automated gold distribution actually work. Lots of people have tried to set it up, but it never really works out in the end.

Also, as i said in the last thread about this, a system that allows the return of automated socialism/equality of taxes across the realm it's not desired, and almost certainly won't be approved. Out loud fully intentional that taxes and incomes are unequal.

[Eldargard]

I don't think I've ever seen a guild designed for automated gold distribution actually work. Lots of people have tried to set it up, but it never really works out in the end.

Also, as i said in the last thread about this, a system that allows the return of automated socialism/equality of taxes across the realm it's not desired, and almost certainly won't be approved. Out loud fully intentional that taxes and incomes are unequal.

I think that it would be a lot of work to set up a communist system with the changes I propose here.