Author Topic: Dear FEI  (Read 4539 times)

De-Legro

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #15: January 19, 2015, 10:56:30 PM »
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Anaris

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #16: January 19, 2015, 10:56:41 PM »
Thing is, IC, all the reasons people are giving, so far as they are making it to my character, are pure [email protected]#$. Zonasa demanding that we condemn the actions, and swear an oath not to let it happen again? Let what happen? Declaring war? (And yeah, i know more ooc, but I'm talking ic, and what my character knows.) So far, all we did was declare war, and then invade 7 days later. What's to condemn?

What's to condemn is Coralynth's actions.

And to be honest, Baranion's being a little cagey in that still. What he really wants is to see Sorraine pledge never to use its military might to try to spread Sartanism, but he's a little afraid that saying so would be dangerous.

Plus, y'know, asking a Theocracy not to support the spread of the religion it's based on isn't likely to go over too well ;D
Timothy Collett

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Indirik

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #17: January 19, 2015, 11:36:42 PM »
You're war declaration message didn't say anything about Coralynth. It said "What we seek is a denunciation of the acts taken thus far by Sorraine and Coralynth, and oaths sworn that such acts will never occur again." No further explanation.

But really, it's pointless. This should have been the safest, most bland, inoffensive war that anyone could have dreamed up. A nice little test of FEI in the post imperial era. And it failed.
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Anaris

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #18: January 19, 2015, 11:50:31 PM »
This should have been the safest, most bland, inoffensive war that anyone could have dreamed up.

See, this, right here? This is what shows a total and utter lack of consciousness of current and recent (well, going back a ways into the last war) diplomatic events.

Just because you think wiping out Ohnar West should be something that no one would ever care about doesn't make it so. And proceeding with this as one of your basic premises is, I think, what's leading you to be so frustrated and angry about the results.

My advice? Forget this idea entirely. Because it's totally wrong, and leading you into bad places.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Indirik

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #19: January 20, 2015, 04:27:19 AM »
My advice? Forget this idea entirely. Because it's totally wrong, and leading you into bad places.
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.

FEI is dying. More so than any other island, and it hasn't have much life for at least the past year to begin with. Any possible dissenting voices have been beaten into submission. All that's left is bland uniformity. And yeah, maybe there are soop3r s33kri+ pl4nz in some backroom that may, if we're lucky, see the light of day in a year or two of hard work and reconstruction. But let's face it, in 6 months it will be too late. So many people will have left that every realm other than Arcaea will be a depopulated wasteland.

And just to be clear, I am NOT blaming Velax the player here. All my references to "Velax" in this thread are meant to refer to the IC character only. Slim distinction, yeah, I know, but it's there.

I had a longer rant prepared, but I'll most likely shelve it and forget it. My IC frustration is obviously spilling over into OOC frustration. But I still maintain my original assertion: FEI sucks.
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De-Legro

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #20: January 20, 2015, 04:44:55 AM »
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.


That would be my guess. Was it not for the fact I don't generally believe it to be part of your nature, I would have thought from your messages so far that your complaint centres around the war not going the way you wanted it to.
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Antonine

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #21: January 20, 2015, 12:56:12 PM »
I agree with Indirik.

Coralynth has played some bad moves diplomatically and should experience repercussions for them. And Ohnar West was saved the minute Arcaea decided to step in and promise to defend their lands and loot the lands of their attackers.

But none of that explains or justifies Zonasa and Cathay declaring war on Sorraine when they're not the ones who've done anything wrong - especially when they're declaring war on Sorraine alone and not Coralynth too.

Guys, this kind of behaviour is how Atamara happened. Please don't make FEI Atamara.

And as for Sartanism, at least it's good thing for causing conflict. ICly you might be worried about the prospect of aggressive religious expansion but wouldn't fighting off a crusade be slightly more fun than curbstomping the theocracies as soon as they start, god forbid, using an IC motive as a way to start a war which is good for the game OOC?

Also, speaking as someone who's now in Coralynth, Ohnar West versus Sorraine and Coralynth was actually a fair fight given how incompetent and inept Coralynth's military activities are.

Fleugs

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #22: January 20, 2015, 01:26:33 PM »
Have you considered using religion as a tool of war? I recently did a check of how well Church of Sartan is spread, and 75% of all FEI regions have a 90-100% follower base. Priests could wipe regions away without much effort. But it would turn this entire shindig into a religious conflict, of course.

I mean, not to point things out, but Topenah (95% followers last I checked) has been sitting entirely undefended at Sorraine's border since... well, ever. That was until I informed Velax, of course, that this was a significant leak in our defences. But to reiterate, that is a (albeit small and not fully populated) city with no militia or units present, ready to be taken by a Sartanian priest in the blink of an eye.

I'm not saying that this course would have been appropriate for Sorraine, let alone that the Church of Sartan is worth a damn, but Arcaea is not the big powerhouse you would make it out to be.
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Antonine

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #23: January 20, 2015, 02:04:35 PM »
Oh, I know very well. Religion could easily be used to do all sorts of damage.

(Though it's not quite as easy as you think - you can't takeover regions which have high realm control)

But the problem is that this is a qausi-religious war. As in the cause of it is mostly religious and there are lots of Arcaeans intolerant to Sartanism but it's not yet at the point where it's a case of Sartanism versus Arcaea. If it was then things would be different but as it is there's no enthusiasm for the entire religion picking a battle with Arcaea in case it loses.

The only way religious takeovers will happen is if Arcaea makes this a religious conflict - the elders of the church don't want to escalate things.

Anaris

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #24: January 20, 2015, 04:26:07 PM »
Yeah, see, that's not the root of the problem. If you think that's what I'm thinking, then I'm not explaining properly and/or you're just not getting it.

Um...what?

I literally quoted something you said, and said it was wrong. Now you're saying that the thing you said is not what you're thinking?

But let's try a different tack.

Let's assume we just let Sorraine and Coralynth roflstomp Ohnar West with nary a peep. Zonasa keeps rebuilding, Cathay and Arcaea do whatever the hell it is they were doing before.

Then what?

What would you propose as a reasonable alternative to what's happening right now? People aren't going to just sit around and do nothing forever, and the game is, in fact, called BattleMaster for a reason. It is intended that most realms should be involved in one war or another most of the time, and the Far East just doesn't have that many different matchups available to it right now. Thus, to be perfectly honest, this seems to me like one of the best, most interesting wars we could reasonably have expected coming off the last war.

(At least, based on the apparent power levels involved. People keep saying how Sorraine and Coralynth are, despite their size, really terrible at warfare, so it's possible this will be just as much of a roflstomp as it looked like you two vs OW would have been...but if that's the case, then I'm not sure there's really much we could have done for you anyway.)
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Sacha

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #25: January 20, 2015, 04:39:04 PM »

Antonine

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #26: January 20, 2015, 05:09:01 PM »
A better war might have been Cathay versus Zonasa since they both lay claim to Haul - for example.

Two evenly matched realms having their own conflict rather than dogpiling into one which is nothing to do with them and making things ridiculously onesided.

De-Legro

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #27: January 20, 2015, 10:20:18 PM »
A better war might have been Cathay versus Zonasa since they both lay claim to Haul - for example.

Two evenly matched realms having their own conflict rather than dogpiling into one which is nothing to do with them and making things ridiculously onesided.

Treaties, they are a wonderful thing. No doubt that war will come, but not when the matter was so recently "resolved". The thing was ridiculously one-sided from the outset, what changed was which side had the numbers.
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Antonine

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #28: January 20, 2015, 10:49:19 PM »
Treaties, they are a wonderful thing. No doubt that war will come, but not when the matter was so recently "resolved". The thing was ridiculously one-sided from the outset, what changed was which side had the numbers.

I'm going to go ahead and say that two versus one is much more balanced and fair than four versus one - which is what the war has become for Sorraine.

Again, I find it ludicrous that everyone's attacking Sorraine when it's Coralynth who they claim to be complaining about. To declare war on Sorraine but not Coralynth is completely hypocritical and illogical.

De-Legro

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Re: Dear FEI
« Reply #29: January 20, 2015, 11:02:11 PM »
I'm going to go ahead and say that two versus one is much more balanced and fair than four versus one - which is what the war has become for Sorraine.

Again, I find it ludicrous that everyone's attacking Sorraine when it's Coralynth who they claim to be complaining about. To declare war on Sorraine but not Coralynth is completely hypocritical and illogical.

No its not, you are simply ignoring the fact that several members have more then one reason to enter the war. Cathay defends their only remaining true ally in there mind so far as I understand things, thus they will defend them against both aggressors. If I understand the politics in Zonasa correctly, our Regent is angry with Coralynth's actions, but also sees this war as important in regards to stopping the spread of a Theocracy whom's religion he dislikes, thus Coralynth would appear to have given him the excuse to do what he really wants to do, which is fight Sorraine and prevent them from expanding into OW. For Zonasa this is not about liking or even caring about OW, there are two matters here, the first the public out cry against dishonourable actions, the second OW is preferable to Sorraine. Even without that one could argue that since we can no directly threaten Coralynth due to geography, we must prevent their goal by preventing the success of their coalition. The only reasonable way we can do that is to prevent their "partner in crime". Remeber that Sorraine is currently held in only slightly better esteem then Coralynth, since Zonasa believe they knew of Coralynths plans, and in the end went ahead with the war knowing how things would play out. Condoning the dishonourable acts of your allies is dishonourable as well you know.

And yes, the sides are more one sided now. Such things happen when one group attempts to overwhelm another. Coralynth and Sorraine sought a war that favoured them, the backlash has resulted in a war that does not.
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