Author Topic: Feature Request: Public Wealth List  (Read 1767 times)

Fleugs

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Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Topic Start: May 21, 2015, 08:39:58 PM »
Title: Public Wealth List

Summary: There should be a publicly available list of characters who hold "excessive" wealth.

Introduction: After looking at the statistics page, more specificly the continent-comparison stats that give pie charts, I noticed Atamara held more than 1.1 million (this is not a typo) gold. When I asked if this was the wealth between the characters, the answer was "yes". Even more info got out. Apparently the wealth is concentrated in some characters (e.g. one EC char has almost 100k gold, 6 atamaran nobles hold 500k gold between them, ...). Now, while hoarding gold is a very noble thing, I believe this situation needs at least some form of addressing. It might be useful if this were public knowledge. For example, if a character holds 100 thousand gold, be it cash or in bonds, I am sure that would be known amongst nobility. I'm going to estimate that the average noble holds, at best, 500 gold (I might be oddly off, though).

Details:

Tim suggested something good on IRC (and, well, it's Tim); "As long as you are one of the top X nobles on the continent as far as gold + bonds combined, *and* you are over (say) 10k, some approximation of your wealth is known, rounded down to the nearest 5k or 25k, depending on how much you have."

I think this is a good suggestion. It will ensure the exact amount of wealth a character has is not known, but an approximation will give others an idea at the very least. It could be added to the "Information" tab in the game, thus ensuring all players have access to it.

Benefits: Accountability of rich characters. Various ways for your characters to use this information to scheme, plot and seek out alliances. Fair information for a possible adversary.

Disadvantages: putting certain players under unwanted pressure.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 08:47:29 PM by Fleugs »
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The Red Foliot

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #1: May 21, 2015, 09:45:34 PM »
I vaguely remember that a few years ago the Devs increased gold output by 25%. Even back then, gold was in overabundance and the move was questionable.

Zakilevo

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #2: May 21, 2015, 09:54:09 PM »
Should reintroduce wealth tax! Tax everything!

Gabanus family

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #3: May 22, 2015, 07:02:30 PM »
Weirdly enough, I actually like the idea.

However what would prevent someone from using a secret society e.g. to 'hide' his money until a moment arises when he actually needs it?

*Edit, I was kindly reminded that those societies can only hold so much. So this may be less a problem than I had thought when I wrote this post.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 07:42:03 PM by Gabanus family »
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Lorgan

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #4: May 22, 2015, 07:42:02 PM »
It's often forgotten that a SS's treasury is limited. You'd need to spend half your gold to be able to hide the other half.

Respectfully,

Zakilevo

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #5: May 22, 2015, 07:47:56 PM »
You still get taxed even if you hide it... weird stuff.

Indirik

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #6: May 23, 2015, 02:18:44 AM »
SS are not taxed. They still pay maintenance though.
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Indirik

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #7: May 23, 2015, 02:19:21 AM »
You could hide gold with a guild if you are the lord and you have no knights.
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Naidraug

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #8: June 02, 2015, 04:03:52 PM »
The ruler can see how much gold a certain noble is holding.

There is no need to know how much gold a certain noble has, this would only increase the pressure over players, that I can see going to OOC discussions and would not bring any true benefit to the game as a whole.

You can already find out how rich is a character family.
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Constantine

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #9: June 02, 2015, 04:22:09 PM »
There is no need to know how much gold a certain noble has, this would only increase the pressure over players, that I can see going to OOC discussions and would not bring any true benefit to the game as a whole.
False. This might increase pressure over characters which is not a bad thing.
As always, if someone is making trouble and griefing people OOC titans can deal with it. We shouldn't instantly discard a feature because some player hypothetically might act like an ass over it.

Naidraug

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #10: June 02, 2015, 04:41:22 PM »
False. This might increase pressure over characters which is not a bad thing.
As always, if someone is making trouble and griefing people OOC titans can deal with it. We shouldn't instantly discard a feature because some player hypothetically might act like an ass over it.

You can not say that it will not make the environment for the game worse. Even IC, there will be problems.

There are already 2 features that can help to know the wealth of a Character/Family.

No need to add another one that has more potential to bring bad things than good.
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Anaris

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #11: June 02, 2015, 04:56:53 PM »
You can not say that it will not make the environment for the game worse. Even IC, there will be problems.

Sure he can. Exactly as easily as you can say that it will make the environment for the game worse

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There are already 2 features that can help to know the wealth of a Character/Family.

One of those is only usable to rulers, only usable against one character at a time, and is pretty disruptive if he's caught at it. The other tells you about families, not characters, which is a completely different thing, and is capped at 20k gold anyway.

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No need to add another one that has more potential to bring bad things than good.

You have asserted that it will be bad, but have done nothing to demonstrate that.

Like Constantine said, if people start harassing someone who's hoarding gold OOC, then report it to the Titans. That's their job.

If people start bugging someone who's hoarding gold IC, to do something useful with it...well, then, what's the problem with that? Why should they be allowed to just hoard gold forever and not have anyone notice or care?
Timothy Collett

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Naidraug

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #12: June 02, 2015, 05:18:38 PM »

You have asserted that it will be bad, but have done nothing to demonstrate that.

Like Constantine said, if people start harassing someone who's hoarding gold OOC, then report it to the Titans. That's their job.

If people start bugging someone who's hoarding gold IC, to do something useful with it...well, then, what's the problem with that? Why should they be allowed to just hoard gold forever and not have anyone notice or care?

And do you have a good system to separate and indicate that the IC harassment is not extrapolating to OOC?

It would be very easy to harass a player and threat a banishment  OOC and claim it to be IC.

And it would be too easy to make a IC discussion overflow to an OOC discussion.

If people suspect about a player hoarding gold there are already systems to investigate and use it IC.

To give power to everyone to keep tabs at other players gold, is too toxic.

You also have a weekly report of how much gold a character receive, and you can see how much gold his family has in the character detail page.

I see no need for a public wealth list.
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Anaris

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #13: June 02, 2015, 05:37:31 PM »
And do you have a good system to separate and indicate that the IC harassment is not extrapolating to OOC?

If you see OOC harassment, report it to the Titans.

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It would be very easy to harass a player and threat a banishment  OOC and claim it to be IC.

If you see OOC harassment, report it to the Titans.

Quote
And it would be too easy to make a IC discussion overflow to an OOC discussion.

If you see OOC harassment, report it to the Titans.

Quote
If people suspect about a player hoarding gold there are already systems to investigate and use it IC.

Only the ruler can do this. And how many of the people hoarding gold do you think are rulers right now, hmm? Or at least have rulers as close friends?

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To give power to everyone to keep tabs at other players gold, is too toxic.

You keep saying this, but all you've given as evidence is "some people might harass them for it OOC."

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You also have a weekly report of how much gold a character receive, and you can see how much gold his family has in the character detail page.

Everyone in the realm doesn't get to see everyone else's income.

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I see no need for a public wealth list.

I do.

It makes perfect sense that nobles knew who held large amounts of personal wealth. They wouldn't know the exact amount, but they'd know the rough magnitude. That's what this feature seeks to show.

It will also, yes, provide pressure on those nobles to actually spend that wealth on something. I see this as a good thing.

Frankly, if someone is sitting in BattleMaster hoarding tens or hundreds of thousands of gold, and having people bugging them to spend that gold on something beneficial to the realm is enough to get them to leave the game, then I'm not sure they were really contributing that much to the game in the first place.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Naidraug

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Re: Feature Request: Public Wealth List
« Reply #14: June 02, 2015, 06:43:20 PM »
So, can you prove it that a IC harassment is not actually OOC? Or based on OOC motivation?

What is your system?

It is easy to discard everything with a "report to the Titans" reply.

There is no need to everyone to know how much gold a character has.

The ruler can see it, you have family information to display how much a family has, and you also have the weekly tax reports that shows to the realm how much a character have.

You can get the same information and average knight share from the weekly reports.

This feature will cause trouble both IC and OOC and bring back the micromanaging that existed when everyone could see the stats of a region.

There is no need to show how much gold one noble has. If it is in a war and char A has no unit and still get a lot o taxes, you can call him out, no need to add the amount of gold he has.
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