Author Topic: Dear Atamara...  (Read 13474 times)

Indirik

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Dear Atamara...
« Topic Start: October 20, 2015, 09:39:39 PM »
You suck.

The entire island is run by an unbreakable coalition that is so risk averse, they refuse to take even the smallest of chances. Everyone else is supposed to just fall in line and be good little client realms while the big boys make all the real decisions in their private forums.

I thought that this war in the south might break things up at least a little. But no. All it did was add another brick in the monolithic edifice of the League. Pick a fight with one League realm? Get ready for the inevitable gang bang, because there's no way in hell that any of them will ever do anything that goes against the League's best interests. This despite the fact that League realms are declaring war with the IC justification of "we were bored, so we decided to attack you".

So congratulations, League. You win Atamara. Now the island is just as f'ing broken as FEI. Hope you're happy.
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #1: October 21, 2015, 12:32:43 AM »
I'm assuming you didn't just realize that the League had won Atamara. That has been true for a long time.
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Indirik

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #2: October 21, 2015, 01:40:05 AM »
For about the past year there have been multiple things happening that made it possible for things to change. But at every opportunity, those in charge have constantly refused to do anything to allow the situation to develop. They have chosen to do nothing, and even to actively oppose any possible change to their dominance. The entire island is manipulated and held in thrall in an increasingly blatant manner. It's just pathetic.
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GundamMerc

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #3: October 21, 2015, 04:19:21 AM »
For about the past year there have been multiple things happening that made it possible for things to change. But at every opportunity, those in charge have constantly refused to do anything to allow the situation to develop. They have chosen to do nothing, and even to actively oppose any possible change to their dominance. The entire island is manipulated and held in thrall in an increasingly blatant manner. It's just pathetic.

Yep, this is why I left.

GoldPanda

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #4: October 21, 2015, 07:53:02 AM »
We won?!  :D

... Is there a prize?  ;D
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jaune

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #5: October 21, 2015, 09:49:25 AM »
I think this conversation has been gone through many times in Atamaran history. At that light, CE & Co. has won Atamara several times :)

Time will heal this again, but this time... do we have time? Player base is shrinking, boredom has always and would eventually this time too create new atleast some sort of conflicts and eventually it would rotten CE/Tara block as well.

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Gabanus family

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #6: October 21, 2015, 02:17:09 PM »
Indirik, have you lost all faith?

I know there is talk within the league on an OOC level to change things, but what'll happen with that I don't know. In the meantime we can try to change things a bit ourselves. So far in Caergoth we've seized every opportunity for war, after the realm was pretty much dead and have seen our noble count double. Now Suville offers a new chapter in the southern war, let's see what that will lead us. I refuse to give up faith :)
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Indirik

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #7: October 21, 2015, 04:27:27 PM »
Quote from: Gabanus family
Indirik, have you lost all faith?
Yes. I held out for a year or two, knowing that perhaps the ongoing conflicts might open the cracks and break it up.

Unfortunately, the League has proven to be completely immune to any kind of change. Multiple opportunities have come and gone. The members have made it blatantly obvious that they will do absolutely nothing that might risk their monolithic dominance. They have absolutely no desire to take even the smallest risk. It's complete lockstep marching.

Look at this recent idiocy with the southern war. Tara and Strombran, Federated, both supporting opposite sides of the same war. Both remain Federated, refusing to even consider any changes in their diplomacy, both happily traveling through each other's lands to attack the other's ally. Complete f'ing abuse of the entire game diplomacy system. Suville could not attack Tara while Tara was free to loot and burn, and manipulate encounter settings to control exactly when and where every battle would happen to ensure they never lost. Strombran did the same thing with Caergoth.

Strombran made it crystal clear that this was exactly the way the war was going to go, and that if Suville tried to do anything different, Strombran would abandon them and Suville would get wiped out. No doubt Caergoth was in the same boat.

Quote
I know there is talk within the league on an OOC level to change things, but what'll happen with that I don't know.
Nothing will happen. It's too late. They had their chance, and did everything possible to prevent it. There is absolutely no reason to believe that anything different will happen this time.

Quote
In the meantime we can try to change things a bit ourselves. So far in Caergoth we've seized every opportunity for war, after the realm was pretty much dead and have seen our noble count double. Now Suville offers a new chapter in the southern war, let's see what that will lead us. I refuse to give up faith :)
Good luck with that.

Quote from: GoldPanda
We won?!  :D

... Is there a prize?  ;D
Yes. You get the entire island all to yourself. Enjoy.

Quote from: Jaune
Time will heal this again, but this time... do we have time?
Nope.

Quote
Player base is shrinking,
The player count, especially in non-League realms is dropping like a rock. There are 200 characters left on AT. 150 of them are firmly in the League's pocket. (Talerium, CE, Tara, Strombran, Grand Duchy of Wayburg) I'm counting GDW as on the League's side, since they have already acknowledged that they have no choice but to side with the League. If they try to side with Suville against the League, they get wiped instantly, and everyone knows it.

The remaining realms include Caergoth, Suville, ML, and Rieleston. I have no reason to believe that Caergoth will take an active role against the League, or any reason to believe that most of Suville will go along with direct war against the League. And even if they do, so what? CE and Talerium are easily handling ML/Riel in the north: 86 v. 27. Strombran/Tara/GDW could no doubt handle Suville and Caergoth in the south: 61 v. 34. Even if GDW swaps sides and joins Caergoth/Suville, that 53 v. 42. A stray CE army every now and then makes short work of everything.

Quote
boredom has always and would eventually this time too create new at least some sort of conflicts and eventually it would rotten CE/Tara block as well.
So... who's going to be the one to break step? Talerium with all the former Darkans? You guys had the chance when Hemmings was ruler of CE. Neither CE nor Talerium would pull the trigger. CE kicked him out and put a more conservative ruler in his place. CE/Strombran had the chance when Tara was going rogue a while back. They didn't pull the trigger then. And Strombran had the chance just now with the southern war. They were too scared to even temporarily leave the federation to declare war on Caergoth.

At every opportunity to create internal strife and make a more dynamic island the League has point blank refused to even consider it. They continually double down at each and every chance.
 
In the past, there was always opposition to the League at all corners. But now Darka is gone from the north, and they've all joined Talerium, which is a staunch and steadfast League member. They may not be federated, but that's just paperwork. They are League through and through. Minas Leon in the northeast is under attack by both Talerium and CE. Suville has been broken in the south. Strombran betrayed Suville and stole an entire duchy, and Wayburg seceded to side with Tara.

The conflicts created through boredom have always come from outside the League, never from within. But now, there's no one left outside the League who could possibly create any meaningful conflict. The war in the south was already the last stab.
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jaune

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #8: October 22, 2015, 07:59:03 AM »
Quote
The conflicts created through boredom have always come from outside the League, never from within. But now, there's no one left outside the League who could possibly create any meaningful conflict. The war in the south was already the last stab.

Thats the point now, it will become inside the league now. But when, and will it be too late?(Prolly too late already).
And is it going to be just one member kicked out and gangbanged for fun by rest of the league?

-Jaune
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Gabanus family

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #9: October 22, 2015, 10:59:28 AM »
Based on what they're discussing now OOC, there's a plan to form one city realms within the league. I wonder if they can ever reach agrement though and if it would help much.

Also who says Caergoth would never turn on the league? All we've been doing is trying to get Tara to break with the league, although I am now 100% convinced that won't work. Won't stop us from warring Strombran though and going down with a bang.

Although for now I have some faith left, I do understand your problems with Atamara very well. Nearly impossible to fight against.
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DeVerci

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #10: October 22, 2015, 01:55:39 PM »
Won't stop us from warring Strombran though and going down with a bang.
Why go to war with Strombran when Suville has plenty of regions that are now free game? Heck now you might even get us to fight them on purpose.

Gabanus family

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #11: October 22, 2015, 04:50:21 PM »
Why go to war with Strombran when Suville has plenty of regions that are now free game? Heck now you might even get us to fight them on purpose.

Wow, why? Cause I could make it make sense RP wise.

Where's the fun in banging down with Tara and possibly Strombran on Suville? Easy, yes, fun, no. In the meantime, Strombran holds Riverholm, which was the IC reason for us to declare war. So now we can change :)
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Indirik

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #12: October 22, 2015, 07:24:05 PM »
Quote from: Jaune
Thats the point now, it will become inside the league now. But when, and will it be too late?(Prolly too late already).
And is it going to be just one member kicked out and gangbanged for fun by rest of the league?
The League has always been extremely resistant to internal upset. It's one of their primary strengths. I can't even begin to count the number of times the League has bent over backward to keep it together, despite serious potential conflicts. Remember when Tara brought Caergoth into the Federation without permission? The League responded by completely busting the federation apart and reforming it without Caergoth.

Ad, honestly, they already got to the point where they felt they had to do something to prevent falling apart due to apathy and inaction. Remember what they did? They picked the only non-League realm that wasn't already fighting and declared war on them. So no, I don't think there will be any change in the League so long as there is a single realm that they're not all allied to. And the other people outside the League think the same way. And they're responding by... abandoning Atamara, just like they have been doing for years.

Quote from: Gabanus
Based on what they're discussing now OOC, there's a plan to form one city realms within the league. I wonder if they can ever reach agrement though and if it would help much.
You mean they're finally starting to realize the abominable state of the island? I suppose it's good that they realized it before it got as bad as FEI. Too bad it's too late to matter.

Quote
Also who says Caergoth would never turn on the league? All we've been doing is trying to get Tara to break with the league, although I am now 100% convinced that won't work. Won't stop us from warring Strombran though and going down with a bang.
Suville tried to get Strombran to defy the League, too, even if just temporarily and indirectly. At Strombran's insistence we tried to work with the League to get things to change, and they thumbed their noses at us. We tried to get Strombran to defy the League in even just little ways, and they thumbed their noses at us, too.

Quote from: DeVerci
Why go to war with Strombran when Suville has plenty of regions that are now free game? Heck now you might even get us to fight them on purpose.
That's one way Caergoth could go. Indeed, given the diplomatic situation, they would probably get lots of support, and be able to roll over Suville easily. Some Suville lords may swap sides, and you might even have a further secession or two as the lords scramble to preserve their little fiefdoms.

I can think of several reasons why to NOT just finish wiping out Suville.
1) This war was not one of territorial expansion. It's a matter of principle and honor. Riverholm is literally the only thing they wanted. By claiming Riverholm for their own, Strombran practically guaranteed that Caergoth will attack.
2) Both Caergoth and Suville have been treated like [email protected]#$ by Tara and Strombran. They've been used and abused throughout this entire war. The message non-League realms are getting: If you're not one of the Big Three, you're [email protected]#$. (Although I personally have my suspicions that the League is really CE/Tara, and Strombran is politely accorded the status of red headed stepchild: tolerated and allowed to use the smallest bedroom, but not *really* one of the family.)
3) Assume that Caergoth goes ahead and wipes out Suville, and takes all their land. Or maybe splits it with the Grand Duchy. What then? Now they're completely surrounded by League nations. And Strombran has already made it crystal clear that war against any single League realm means all out war with *all* League realms. (Tara has almost certainly said the same to Caergoth.) Once Suville is gone they're choice would be to sit in their corner and die of boredom, or attack the League and get gangbanged. Do you want to attack the League *before* you've wiped out everyone that could help you, or *after*?
4) Assuming that Caergoth wipes out Suville, some nobles of Suville will doubtless abandon the region rather than change allegiance to Caergoth or Wayburg. This reduces the total pool of nobles in the region even further, making future actions more difficult when the inevitable decision is made to go after a League realm. (Inevitable because, you know, they'll be all that's left...)
5) War with Suville is, essentially, zero risk. Boring. I know that's the way the League likes things, but it's that kind of "easy, low risk" attitude that got us where we are now.
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Gabanus family

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #13: October 23, 2015, 04:22:44 PM »
The League has always been extremely resistant to internal upset.... even have a further secession or two as the lords scramble to preserve their little fiefdoms.

True, all we tried to do is get Tara to turn on the league (even in small form as well), but any proposal of even temporarily breaking the federation were shot down...

But yes, they've realized it's the league in its current form which has made Atamara boring. The question becomes, can they all agree on the solution and aren't they already too late.

I can think of several reasons why to NOT just finish wiping out Suville.
1) This war was not one of territorial expansion. It's a matter of principle and honor. Riverholm is literally the only thing they wanted. By claiming Riverholm for their own, Strombran practically guaranteed that Caergoth will attack.
2) Both Caergoth and Suville have been treated like [email protected]#$ by Tara and Strombran. They've been used and abused throughout this entire war. The message non-League realms are getting: If you're not one of the Big Three, you're [email protected]#$. (Although I personally have my suspicions that the League is really CE/Tara, and Strombran is politely accorded the status of red headed stepchild: tolerated and allowed to use the smallest bedroom, but not *really* one of the family.)
3) Assume that Caergoth goes ahead and wipes out Suville, and takes all their land. Or maybe splits it with the Grand Duchy. What then? Now they're completely surrounded by League nations. And Strombran has already made it crystal clear that war against any single League realm means all out war with *all* League realms. (Tara has almost certainly said the same to Caergoth.) Once Suville is gone they're choice would be to sit in their corner and die of boredom, or attack the League and get gangbanged. Do you want to attack the League *before* you've wiped out everyone that could help you, or *after*?
4) Assuming that Caergoth wipes out Suville, some nobles of Suville will doubtless abandon the region rather than change allegiance to Caergoth or Wayburg. This reduces the total pool of nobles in the region even further, making future actions more difficult when the inevitable decision is made to go after a League realm. (Inevitable because, you know, they'll be all that's left...)
5) War with Suville is, essentially, zero risk. Boring. I know that's the way the League likes things, but it's that kind of "easy, low risk" attitude that got us where we are now.

Which is exactly why Caergoth chose a different path. There were some nobles with 'serious doubts' in Caergoth on whether or not this was smart, but none too great to even remotely protest the proposal of the King.

There is one difference however, Tara/Caergoth's relation was much better than Strombran/Suville so it seems. Tara even now has already proclaimed they support Caergoth's claim on Riverholm and will not interfere. Strombran seems to have been bluffing against you, but your chars will find this out soon enough as the Suvillian King already knows what's going on IC.

Ps. the reasons for war you gave where the IC reasons obviously. Ooc played as much, if not more, a role in the declaration as no war was boring as hell and as the rulers of Caergoth we decided within a day together that we had to do something and this war would be perfect, or at least better than the alternative.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 04:24:55 PM by Gabanus family »
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Indirik

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Re: Dear Atamara...
« Reply #14: October 23, 2015, 05:40:38 PM »
Why the &%#$% do they need an ooc agreement to take ic action? Just do it! We don't need happy, shiny agreement everywhere. We need misunderstandings, disagreements, and conflicts.
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