Author Topic: Character limit changes  (Read 22802 times)

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #60: October 30, 2015, 05:22:03 PM »
Medron,

There are many reasons that the League won Atamara. Good diplomacy, Strong military leadership (Enri Kinsey is one of the top 5 generals of all BM history in my opinion), and strong loyalty. But, a huge component of that is multiple characters per player. Even with a good military and good diplomacy, the CE bloc would have lost the war to end all Atamaran wars when the entire island teamed up against them, if it weren't for double characters.

Also, it is completely disingenuous to act like the League has only just won Atamara. He League won Atamara the day Falasan fell. Everything since then has been inevitable assuming the CE bloc continued to push the toxic agenda of forcing everyone else out. You've won once you control more than 50-60% of the island. After that, it should have been changed. Not wait another 5 years to make sure everyone leaves Atamara.
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Zakilevo

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #61: October 30, 2015, 06:03:54 PM »
I am sorry but CE bloc had years to break up and revive the continent. It is just too late now. Why didn't you guys try to break the alliance up sooner?

Miriam Ics

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #62: October 30, 2015, 06:10:17 PM »
First I was sad, somethings would change and I did not like it. Now I can see a chance to a renewal from and to everyone.
We can use this to have more fun instead of complaining here. Just need a little bit of creativity.

I suggest to make plans and to start changing the rps. We don't have to stay tied to our chars story. In fact, this is the biggest difference from rp and RL.

Count on me devs. I will do whatever I can to have fun, and to bring people to have fun with me.
"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."

dustole

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #63: October 30, 2015, 07:07:45 PM »
I think this change is for the best.  I look forward to seeing which realms become ghost towns. 

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Medron Pryde

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #64: October 30, 2015, 07:17:01 PM »
You want a reason nothing has changed over the last few years?

One reason?  I wasn't around.

Now I'm not taking credit.  Lots of people have been pushing to do this for a while now.

But I've been...rather inactive for a while.  I had dropped into a very low level of activity in BattleMaster.

When the previous Tyrant left, I decided to go for the Tyrancy.  And ever since I've been Tyrant I've been...pushing Tara to go outside the League.  Straining relations...and now thanks to the actions of Strombran those relations have snapped.

I don't know if I would have done anything like this if I'd been Tyrant earlier...but from the moment I became Tyrant and looked around...I realized one very interesting fact.  The League was a...straightjacket for those IN the League...and an insurmountable wall for those OUTSIDE the League.  From the moment I got my legs under me until now, I've been straining that straightjacket and that wall as much as I could.  And i think the leaders of Strombran realized I was doing that (without contacting me OOC by the way) and started pushing right back in ways that would force me to strain things further.

We've basically been fighting each other for months, doing a steady drum beat of ratcheting up pressure to see who would blink first.  And neither one us were blinking.  And now we are in open war.

The Minas Leon/Rieleston Federation is gone.
The Cagil/Strombran/Tara Federation is minus Tara.
And most of the other alliances are in flux with major fighting gearing up.

It took us a while to roll things up.  Should it have been done earlier?  Yeah.  As a player, I agree that it should have been done long ago.  As the character of Regstav absolutely not.  Regstav wanted strength for Tara.  Most of you probably have no idea how hard it was for me as a player to get things into a position where Regstav would finally take the step he did.  He's a bloody stubborn character...  But yeah.  I think it should have been done earlier.

Now we have a crop of new rulers in almost every member nation of the League, and we are all willing to as players burn down what has taken years to build.  Because we want to make things more fun for everyone.  We've been working towards this for months.  We almost had it a year ago when I first became Tyrant.  But...I was still in Regstav player mode.  I could not imagine Tara without Cagil back then so I did everything it took to rebuild the alliance.  It wasn't until I was done that I looked at Atamara as a ruler who was supposed to make things exciting for my players that I realized the trap of the situation.  I just didn't see what was going on out there in the rest of the continent until then.  That was my error as a player.  I fully recognize that.

I had two choices.  From a ruler player perspective devoted to making things more exciting for the continent, I should have picked option number 2.  Of course, at that time Tara probably would have died if I'd picked Option 2.  But it certainly would have made things exciting for the continent.  I did the right thing by my character.  As Regstav I rebuilt the alliance that he could not imagine being without.  The only thing I can say in my defense is that I didn't know how badly things were locked in by the League at that time.  I didn't have enough experience.  This is not my first time being a ruler.  This IS the first time I've been a LONG time ruler though.  Looking at it now, I realize that a good ruler SHOULD look at things just a little bit OOC.  Your job as a ruler is to make sure your players have fun.  And part of that is making sure OTHER players have fun as well.  I didn't have that point of view when I first became Tyrant.

After months of working all this up though, I can say that all of us new rulers are looking at the continent with those just slightly OOC eyes.  It's time to make a change.  Past time really, but...well...there's nothing we can do about the past.  So we've been working for months to destabilize things in ways that work IC and now...well...it's done gone unstable now and there's nowhere to go but down...or...up...or whatever...

I'm sure our characters will be broken hearted.

And as a player I'll be giggling all the way to the bloodbath.  ;)

Zakilevo

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #65: October 30, 2015, 07:19:42 PM »
You still have time to bath in blood \o/
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 07:30:50 PM by Lapallanch »

Hyral

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #66: October 30, 2015, 07:30:09 PM »
Did somebody ask for numbers? (no one did but I have them for AT anyway.)

Same-realm doubles (as in pairs not nobles) (total noble count):

Rielston- 4 (11)
Strombran- 2 (21)
Minas Leon- 3 (16)
CE- 7 (48)
Tara- 6 (33)
Suville- 4 (18)
Talerium- 7 (34)
Caergoth- 3 (18)
Grand Duchy Wayburg- 2 (7)
Shadowhaven- 0 (4)

Doubles spread between realms: (25 doubles total)
CE/talerium- 2
CE/ML- 1
CE/strombran- 8
CE/Suville- 1
CE/Shadowhaven- 1
Caergoth/Shadowhaven-1
Tara/ML- 1
Tara/Caergoth- 3
Tara/Talerium- 3
Strombran/Caergoth- 1
Strombran/Suville- 1
Rielston/Caergoth- 1
Rielston/Talerium- 1

Also 5 of those doubles are advies sorry didn't keep track which. (one is a CE/CE one is a Tara/Talerium....)

In terms of nobles who are guaranteed to leave a particular realm (same realm pairs), this is going to hurt Rielston, GDW, and Suville the most. Is that an improvement I don't know. The split pairs are mostly going to slim down CE bloc (though not necessarily CE). Exception Shadowhaven, who might lose two nobles out of four if they like their other realms better.

Conclusion: It's going to depend on which way people bail. The results of this change could range from We have a chance! to WHY???



Dante Silverfire

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #67: October 30, 2015, 07:49:41 PM »
I think it's obvious that rulers should always look at things with at least a small bit of OOC intention to keep things fun for other players. I'm pretty sure the game tells you this when you become ruler. It's in your job description. I just think a lot of people have failed at that over the years.

At this point, while it sounds like maybe you're promoting some interaction on AT, I have zero interest in it. There is no change that I would rather see than just the whole island sinking into the abyss. And I had some of my most fun moments there. While the island has been won, the only ones left are those who hadn't seen this problem for years. Now they've kicked everyone else out of the sandbox and have to play a new game without the others. That's fine, but I know I'm not alone in that the continent has been soured permanently for me.
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Indirik

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #68: October 30, 2015, 08:04:11 PM »
Great post, Medron. It is interesting to see how others view the situation, and to know that some on the opposite side see that there really was a problem.
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Sovari

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #69: October 31, 2015, 12:15:05 AM »
There may be a problem, but to thermonuke players who are trying to keep up the lore of an island they like by making their realms unsustainable due to a lack of people willing to do important roles.... For instance, FEI, Arcaea, had nobody wanting to be the banker for I believe 3 weeks. At that point we had to break the IC law and make my secondary character the banker of the realm. The primary character being the realm's ruler and effectively I now have 2 positions in the government which is against the law of Arcaea. As a result we've decided to ease up on the law because game mechanics were proving a challenge when RP was fine.

And now my plan to try and overturn the established order by having the secondary character recreate the Church of Ibladesh to cause some religious strife and war with the Sartanists already around in the Far East is in danger because I doubt I can have the Church up and running before the secondary character is forced off of the island and I have to make her a NPC support character again like when she was a page... this time she'll just become a private priest for her I suppose... *sighs*

Zakilevo

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #70: October 31, 2015, 01:52:46 AM »
I think what character limit does is you actually have to commit a character instead of your filler. You can't play one good guy and one bad guy at the same time on the same continent anymore.

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #71: October 31, 2015, 02:16:56 AM »
I think what character limit does is you actually have to commit a character instead of your filler. You can't play one good guy and one bad guy at the same time on the same continent anymore.

It also forces you to suffer the consequences of not having people interested enough in filling positions. Other realms aren't having a problem. So it should be possible. If not, try and figure out how to attract more nobles. Go to war more, or RP everyday in the realm.
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Moto_o

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #72: October 31, 2015, 02:51:19 AM »
Or plan a huge wedding RP and tell everyone about it. Then when it happened people think you just pulling it out of your ass.

Also silverfire! I missed you.

Moto_o

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #73: October 31, 2015, 03:00:41 AM »
If Moto could put it's two cents in.

I Will say that personally I enjoy playing two characters on the same island and especially when I was on Atamara "the island and I have a love hate relationship"

Having more than one noble in the same realm really does boost its strength but it could also kill a realm. Ex: if 4 players never talk but make up 8 nobles in a 10 noble realm ... That is one borring realm.

The new rule of one noble per island will cripple a lot of realm and many people in positions of power will not be happy. But I say go full steam ahead with it .


daviceroy

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Re: Character limit changes
« Reply #74: October 31, 2015, 08:38:51 AM »
Personally, I think AT is getting more interesting.  Some may not like it like I don't like Dwilight.  But really, that's a personal choice.

The argument that having 2 characters leads to a "primary" and a "support" character.  If that's true, then that's true across the board.  Someone who can't play 2 characters on a single island isn't likely to suddently be able to play 2 characters across the game.  Part of what BM's charm is the ability to take on several characters and the challenge of playing the different ones.

Otherwise, you just have copies of the same island over and over again.  Instead, I have multiple characters interacting with different groups.  Some people that one character may be aligned with on one islnd I may be against on another or not even know them at all.  That's the BM charm.  If we remove this, we should do the next "logical" step and just make everyone have one character.  Yes, it would remove everything that made BM special, but if that's the goal, let's do it.