Author Topic: Sinking  (Read 4638 times)

Moto_o

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Sinking
« Topic Start: November 24, 2015, 05:48:54 AM »
If The island does close. It should be due to a massive invasion of white rabbits.

"Any island that sinks should be given an epic event that is unbeatable and forces everyone to flee."

Ossan

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #1: November 24, 2015, 04:09:19 PM »
Mongol rabbits.

Though really if any continent needs sinking it's Dwilight. I like the SMA atmosphere/rules/idea but the continent doesn't work very well.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 04:17:23 PM by Ossan »
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GundamMerc

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #2: November 25, 2015, 03:58:35 AM »
Mongol rabbits.

Though really if any continent needs sinking it's Dwilight. I like the SMA atmosphere/rules/idea but the continent doesn't work very well.

How? Please explain this? The continent works fine when the second half is available to play, which it will be when far east and beluaterra are probably sunk. It's working fine now, since we have a bunch of rulers dedicated towards creating conflict rather than trying to win the continent.

Anaris

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #3: November 25, 2015, 04:03:28 AM »
Pseudorandom tidbits of information about the continents mentioned above:

Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.

Beluaterra has always been much more active and interesting than its noble count would suggest.
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Re: Sinking
« Reply #4: November 25, 2015, 07:15:32 AM »
And EC is Tom's favorite

Blue Star

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #5: November 26, 2015, 07:52:06 PM »
Pseudorandom tidbits of information about the continents mentioned above:

Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.

Beluaterra has always been much more active and interesting than its noble count would suggest.

Dwilight needs to sink, we have war island back... when it was full it was annoying to play on and when half it had few bright spots. Only bright spot is sea travel since that makes being a pirate more authentic.

EC original contient = Ubent ftw

BT = fun during the invasions

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Ossan

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #6: November 26, 2015, 08:01:01 PM »
How? Please explain this? The continent works fine when the second half is available to play, which it will be when far east and beluaterra are probably sunk. It's working fine now, since we have a bunch of rulers dedicated towards creating conflict rather than trying to win the continent.

Dwilight has been the most consistently active continent, and seen the most positively by players.
I don't believe that. At least not by a majority, especially those who have quit or at least left the island over how awful waging war there can be.

The problem with Dwilight is that the islands are too narrow, so unless you force realms to break up or otherwise conspire OOC to keep them to a certain size you're going to have very long and extremely boring travel times to get anywhere. The north has been a lot more exciting, though I have to be honest that I am quite disappointed with Antiqualia's poor performance. The south is pretty much dead, I haven't head anything from there in ages and the remains of Fissoa seem pretty low pop.

Beluaterra at least has an interesting mechanic to shake things up.
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GundamMerc

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #7: November 26, 2015, 11:48:54 PM »
Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you. Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.

Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.

Sacha

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #8: November 27, 2015, 12:04:54 AM »
Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you. Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.

Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.

I can attest. Back when I was still somewhat of a bigshot in Luria, I mostly had little or no idea what happened beyond the Divides. For the longest time, Luria was focused on dominating the southeast pocket of the island, in between waging war amongst themselves. I don't think a Lurian army even went past the Divides until they started tangling with the remnants of the SA block.

I like it that way. Dwilight puts something of a limit on people's ambitions of dominating almost the entire island.

Indirik

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #9: November 27, 2015, 01:52:30 AM »
I never let little things like island size limit my ambitions. I still wanted it all.

And I could have done it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids! >:(
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Ossan

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #10: November 27, 2015, 04:53:42 AM »
Quote
Well the majority of people who have played Dwilight disagree with you.
The majority being mostly Lurians or have you actually talked with everyone who has played in the last two years, including the dozens who quit the game entirely?

Besides, the islands are not too narrow. Realms being too large is a problem caused by players, not by the game. We can see this by looking at Atamara, where it took OOC means to break up the gridlock on that continent, even though it is much MUCH larger and wider than either island on Dwilight.

Besides that, I've been on Dwilight for a long time. Do you want to know why most of the people left? It wasn't the travel times. It was the fact that the western half was overrun with monsters. Travel times had nothing to do with it. In fact the size of Dwilight as a whole was a large draw, as it meant that one realm or alliance of realms couldn't control the whole of the continent as we've seen happen to Atamara and Far East. Even when the Astrum/Corsanctum/Morek Empire Triple Alliance was still a thing, the west was largely able to determine their own fate, with realms like Asylon and Niselur (and sometimes even the Farronite Republic) actively fighting a war with Astrum without having to worry about being teamed up on by the Morek Empire and Corsanctum. Meanwhile the south west of the continent had their own diplomatic sphere that was largely independent of the rest of the continent. That kind of thing was unique to Dwilight, where independent spheres of influence actually had space to form.

To say that the map design has no effect upon the game and realms that form is just plain silly. It very much directs the flow of troops and some areas can be easier to hold on to multiple cities than others. Not that players can't still deadlock things, but the narrowness of the east island is a major problem. It's also equally silly saying that travel times had nothing to do with it. Travel times were a huge complaint in the war with Luria and definitely, going to or from Morek was basically an all month commitment IRL to get ready, sail there, land, do a few things, fight one maybe two battles and then go back. Swordfell's mountain range makes for a nice divide to separate spheres of influence, but it also means there are few possible realms in the north let along ones for the existing ones to fight with (Morek is basically dead, Antiquallia is... IDK what they're hoping to do, they could have ended the war a month ago and not wound up a 1 province shut in).

I agree that the western half being closed is a major factor (the entire thing was unfortunately badly handled and bungled by both the players and devs), but it's closed and there are no signs of it reopening again anytime soon. I thought it would be clear that I was talking more about the east island since that is the only part that is actually relevant to BM today. The west still had some issues with realms stretching from coast to coast so the only directions they could fight were north or south which greatly limits how many nations you can be at war with.

Morek's break up was largely OOC too, though more a decision by a player who is playing an insane person who doesn't really need in-depth IC reasons to do things. It wouldn't be too hard to reform the Morek Empire either eventually, and then what? You're left with fighting Swordfell (extremely defensive position) or Astrum (only real other target) unless you continually decide OOC to enforce there being smaller realms. It also relies on everyone playing ball with the idea and being in on it, that's not going to happen.


I was .... in Luria,

Then yes of course you enjoyed it, Luria is powerful, rich and and had lots of smaller realms to fight with for ages. It was significantly better off and more enjoyable than most of the realms it was fighting against. There's a reason why it's the largest nation by far and almost the only one that didn't have a lot of players just quit the game completely.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 04:57:32 AM by Ossan »
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GundamMerc

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #11: November 27, 2015, 05:41:19 AM »
The majority being mostly Lurians or have you actually talked with everyone who has played in the last two years, including the dozens who quit the game entirely?

To say that the map design has no effect upon the game and realms that form is just plain silly. It very much directs the flow of troops and some areas can be easier to hold on to multiple cities than others. Not that players can't still deadlock things, but the narrowness of the east island is a major problem. It's also equally silly saying that travel times had nothing to do with it. Travel times were a huge complaint in the war with Luria and definitely, going to or from Morek was basically an all month commitment IRL to get ready, sail there, land, do a few things, fight one maybe two battles and then go back. Swordfell's mountain range makes for a nice divide to separate spheres of influence, but it also means there are few possible realms in the north let along ones for the existing ones to fight with (Morek is basically dead, Antiquallia is... IDK what they're hoping to do, they could have ended the war a month ago and not wound up a 1 province shut in).

I agree that the western half being closed is a major factor (the entire thing was unfortunately badly handled and bungled by both the players and devs), but it's closed and there are no signs of it reopening again anytime soon. I thought it would be clear that I was talking more about the east island since that is the only part that is actually relevant to BM today. The west still had some issues with realms stretching from coast to coast so the only directions they could fight were north or south which greatly limits how many nations you can be at war with.

Morek's break up was largely OOC too, though more a decision by a player who is playing an insane person who doesn't really need in-depth IC reasons to do things. It wouldn't be too hard to reform the Morek Empire either eventually, and then what? You're left with fighting Swordfell (extremely defensive position) or Astrum (only real other target) unless you continually decide OOC to enforce there being smaller realms. It also relies on everyone playing ball with the idea and being in on it, that's not going to happen.


Then yes of course you enjoyed it, Luria is powerful, rich and and had lots of smaller realms to fight with for ages. It was significantly better off and more enjoyable than most of the realms it was fighting against. There's a reason why it's the largest nation by far and almost the only one that didn't have a lot of players just quit the game completely.

???

You realize that I've never played a character in Luria, and have played with people in realms from Xinhai and Morek Empire to Farronite Republic and Barca, right? You realize that most of the people who quit were new players who had joined western Dwilight realms and felt they had gotten screwed by the Monster invasion, yes? I witnessed it first hand, it actually made me quit temporarily! As one of the people who quit Dwilight (and the rest of the game) for a short time, I can tell you it wasn't the map or the large realms that hurt it. It was the near-helpless situation that people in the invasion were put in, not because of any player-caused event, but because of NPC rogues that were pretty much unstoppable.

Oh, and if you're having issues with travel times (like Luria Nova and Morek Empire were) that's entirely the fault of the ruler for not declaring war on a local realm.

Dude, I was in Morek for the break-up, and I met the player who initiated the break-up personally using their ruler character, afterwards using steam (found out we were both furries :3). I and two to three other nobles were responsible for the whole thing happening. It was not at all OOC. Indirik, Lapallanch, and I all began protesting the ruler (and General) because they wouldn't stop the war with Luria. After some time doing that, the ruler exiled (not banned) us all. We all laughed this off ICly, and began to prepare for a party in the capital to mock her. After a bit, she gave up, resigned from her position as Grand Mistress, and proceeded to secede from Morek Empire, thus forming Helyg Derwyddon (I've finally memorized the name, took a while). At this point things went crazy. I believe it was Urtagoth (Lapallanch's character) who won the throne, angering the traditionalists (he is playing an insane character after all), who were led by Helm, the General. They proceeded to secede and form Arnor, taking with them the majority of the northern regions. Antiqualia seceded as well, taking with it the Springdale duchy. I at some point among all this joined Helyg Derwyddon, became general, and basically became the power behind the throne, having the ruler declare war on Morek Empire before declaring peace and turning our attention to the south, to take Caiyun from Astrum.

So please, the next time you claim something, have some proof for it.

Oh by the way, the wars versus Astrum on the west island were not north to south, save for Farronite Republic. Asylon and Niselur were both to the west of Astrum.

Also, judging by what's going on with East Island and the glaciers there, I can safely bet that the monsters on the west side are likely to weaken. Even now the spawn rate for the monsters on the west side is no higher than the east side I believe, so really the only thing stopping realms from going to the west are the current conflicts.

Ossan

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #12: November 27, 2015, 01:32:21 PM »
I think I might have been drunker than I thought I was when I wrote that, I'll have a better reply tonight (12+ hours).
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Dante Silverfire

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #13: November 29, 2015, 03:44:57 PM »
I think you have cause and effect mixed up with Luria.

Luria is not the most fun because it is rich and powerful.

Luria is the most powerful because it has been the most fun and engaging realm to be in for a long sustained period of time. The internal politics and culture created a realm that people enjoyed playing in. That retained nobles and helped ensure that if the military wasn't the strongest, it was at least always competitive. Also, Luria never worried about fighting realms outside its small area. It only ever stuck to its own business so travel times (until recently) have never been an issue.

The concept of Dwilight is that you should stick to your immediate area of influence.

Only now has Luria completely conquered its own sphere, and is now dealing with the pains of being a large realm with limited battles. It also finally has a stable government which promotes a much more unified realm. While this has strengthened the realm it has also started to see noble loss now. we'll see what the end result is eventually.
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GundamMerc

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Re: Sinking
« Reply #14: November 29, 2015, 08:18:49 PM »
I think you have cause and effect mixed up with Luria.

Luria is not the most fun because it is rich and powerful.

Luria is the most powerful because it has been the most fun and engaging realm to be in for a long sustained period of time. The internal politics and culture created a realm that people enjoyed playing in. That retained nobles and helped ensure that if the military wasn't the strongest, it was at least always competitive. Also, Luria never worried about fighting realms outside its small area. It only ever stuck to its own business so travel times (until recently) have never been an issue.

The concept of Dwilight is that you should stick to your immediate area of influence.

Only now has Luria completely conquered its own sphere, and is now dealing with the pains of being a large realm with limited battles. It also finally has a stable government which promotes a much more unified realm. While this has strengthened the realm it has also started to see noble loss now. we'll see what the end result is eventually.

In some ways correct, but in others not so much. Luria has seen some noble loss, but that was from nobles leaving to join the northern realms. I would also point to the fact that Luria has a large number of nobles having more to do with the monster invasion than any inherent superiority. The nobles from the west saw a realm that had large amounts of land and gold. This meant plenty of room for knight and lordships, as well as moving up in the realm because of Luria's reputation as an internally unstable realm.

They didn't go to Morek Empire, which had even more room and gold, plus plenty of open lordships, for several reasons.
1) It's a theocracy of SA, something that the westerners aren't exactly keen on.
2) It's much, MUCH further away than Luria.
3) The leaders of Luria were much more welcoming.