Author Topic: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?  (Read 11016 times)

Ketchum

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Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Topic Start: December 04, 2015, 01:55:30 AM »
As per topic above, let me start the ball rolling for all players who wishing to migrate and join a new realm in a new island.

Convince me why :)

I have never try SMA atmosphere island before. This is as good chance to try and play on one. How does the SMA environment looks like? From the initial perspection, we need to RolePlay our characters.
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Ossan

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #1: December 04, 2015, 02:50:41 AM »
Well you don't have to RP that much more, but it is encouraged. SMA at the very least requires you to try and make sure you always address people properly, don't have any silly names or silly acts or RP about how your noble used to be some sort of half-witted peddler, just keep it a more real. It's serious but certainly not no fun allowed though!

Obviously I'd recommend my own realm, Arnor. We were created when the Morek Empire was split apart in order to create smaller realms that could have some fun wars between them and have been growing well since then. We're well positioned to engage in more wars in the future as well as help launch expeditions to the west. Currently we are at war with Antiquallia, one of the other realms created from Morek, who attacked us without warning and then had their bottoms handed to them. Unfortunately their leader refused to admit defeat and then went largely inactive before they replaced him so they've ended up just sitting behind their walls slowly dying of boredom. Their fate remains to be seen, but it should be over soon and then new fun can begin :D

There's certainly room for new players and ideas in Arnor!

As for the continent in general:

D'Hara is still at war with Luria Nova and has been for IDK how many years now. I don't know how much of that war is really going on though, but D'Hara is a battle hardened realm and remains the second largest in terms of Nobles despite the fall of almost all of their old allies. Definitely also a good choice if you wish to go to the west.

Astrum is fighting against invasions by Luria Nova (who are trying to colonize them, which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island) and their neighbour Helyg Derwyddon. This is partly a religious war as well as a territorial one. Astrum is well positioned for sending expeditions west, and indeed they are the only ones who hold a reclaimed city. They will definitely be a fun realm to join as you will get immediate action and lots of choices for the future.

Swordfell is still remaining neutral, they haven't fought a war in years and I don't really know anything about what their realm is like. That could change though.

Morek Empire is a small realm with only four nobles, I'm not really sure what is going on besides Urtagoth being insane and deciding to declare war on Sanguis Astroism. He was recently severely wounded in a duel though and was replaced as ruler. Indirik can probably give a better overview too, but he seems to be having fun there as well. It remains to be seen if Morek eventually gets gobbled up by a neighbour or has a resurgence.

Madina and Fissoa in the south are desperately short on nobles, like seriously desperate. They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year. Madina is especially well suited to colonizing the south of the west island.
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Vita

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #2: December 04, 2015, 03:25:31 AM »
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which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island
And what makes you say that two realms, one with a city and one with three cities, is worse than a behemoth with 4 cities?

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They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year.
A bit of a conclusion jump? The players didn't leave from being defeated by Luria. They left because they refused to do anything afterward and bored themselves to death with inaction. You can't keep expecting the game to entertain you, you have to act yourself. There were opportunities for them to do something, but they intentionally limited what they would consider doing.

GundamMerc

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #3: December 04, 2015, 03:51:29 AM »
Astrum is fighting against invasions by Luria Nova (who are trying to colonize them, which isn't going to do a lick of good for the island) and their neighbour Helyg Derwyddon. This is partly a religious war as well as a territorial one. Astrum is well positioned for sending expeditions west, and indeed they are the only ones who hold a reclaimed city. They will definitely be a fun realm to join as you will get immediate action and lots of choices for the future.

The fact that you don't think the colony will be good for the island shows how ignorant you are about what the colony is.It isn't going to be a realm of Lurians. It is a realm for the remnants of the Western realms. I can't say more without ruining IC events, but trust me when I say it is going to be independent of Luria.

Indirik

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #4: December 04, 2015, 04:28:31 AM »
Currently we are at war with Antiquallia, one of the other realms created from Morek, who attacked us without warning and then had their bottoms handed to them.
Without warning? I can't believe that. Everyone knew that Antiqualia was going to go to war with Arnor. You owned Cold Spring! Did you think they were just going to roll over and let you keep it? And with the way the two rulers couldn't come to an agreement, it was predestined.

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Morek Empire is a small realm with only four nobles, I'm not really sure what is going on besides Urtagoth being insane and deciding to declare war on Sanguis Astroism. He was recently severely wounded in a duel though and was replaced as ruler. Indirik can probably give a better overview too, but he seems to be having fun there as well. It remains to be seen if Morek eventually gets gobbled up by a neighbour or has a resurgence.
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Madina and Fissoa in the south are desperately short on nobles, like seriously desperate. They simply don't have enough as they took quite the loss being defeated by Luria earlier this year. Madina is especially well suited to colonizing the south of the west island.
This is what happens when a realm grows to monster proportions, being so grossly larger than their neighbors. They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.

There are realms available on Dwigliht that have warfare and action. And they changes that are coming within the next couple of weeks will shake everything up even more. There will be LOTS of opportunity for everyone.
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Ossan

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #5: December 04, 2015, 04:48:52 AM »
Without warning? I can't believe that. Everyone knew that Antiqualia was going to go to war with Arnor. You owned Cold Spring! Did you think they were just going to roll over and let you keep it? And with the way the two rulers couldn't come to an agreement, it was predestined.
Semantics! Picky semantics :p Of course we all knew it was going to happen, but I think it is justifiable IC to call it that.

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This is what happens when a realm grows to monster proportions, being so grossly larger than their neighbors. They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
Aye, I certainly intend to keep any realms I am in from getting TOO big in the future too. Hopefully the new changes will help with that.

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A bit of a conclusion jump? The players didn't leave from being defeated by Luria. They left because they refused to do anything afterward and bored themselves to death with inaction. You can't keep expecting the game to entertain you, you have to act yourself. There were opportunities for them to do something, but they intentionally limited what they would consider doing.
You're reading far too much into a quick summary sentence. I don't think that they all left directly because of it, but they did lose pretty badly and people left afterwards. Being on the complete opposite end of the continent that's all I really know, and I dunno what there was to keep them interested after that anyway. Fissoa doesn't have the greatest location unfortunately.

I highly doubt that having their realm defeated and forced to split in two had zero effect upon the player's decisions afterwards though :p EDIT: But also that feels like a topic for another thread I think.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 05:16:11 AM by Ossan »
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JDodger

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #6: December 04, 2015, 05:36:53 AM »
I'd recommend joining Helyg Derwyddon, some sweet regions available and a good attitude toward war and conflict

I'd recommend Westfold but we haven't made it yet
Why then Selenia should DEFINITELY come to visit? Richer AND Happier you say? That must be seen to be believed.

Vita

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #7: December 04, 2015, 05:40:30 AM »
They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
I really disagree here. The only option they didn't have was to attack Luria (which, even that, I think was time-limited because I hate diplomatic limitations in treaties). Luria's reaction to anything else would've been significantly muted.

Now sure, characters have different IC backgrounds that discourage the likelihood of taking certain actions, but we, as a community of players, also *really* need to get out of the My Guy Syndrome being so strong that you can't even play your character, but sit around twiddling your thumbs. No, you as a player can make changes, they don't have to be life-shattering, so that the game can be an enjoyable experience. And in my view, this is something that rulers and governments should be *more* expected to do than the average knight.

What could Madina or Fissoa done in their local vicinity? All are ideas I know was expressed to various characters of theirs at certain points (yes, even the anti-lurian ones) via IC discussion. Had a civil war between each other. Invaded D'hara (resentment from their diplomatic fallout). Invaded Swordfell (Swordfell was about to invade Madina a short time prior, even). Assisted Luria against Astrum. None of them even had to be very long-term, but could just be *something* to do until something *better* is available. Look at VT and Perdan's ruler-orchestrated war. While I seriously disagree with components of it, the players at least *did* something. They found a way to make a war that didn't see either realm destroyed, kept their players, and attracted more players to a war with a shorter refit time and engaging internal discussion (damn democracies).

But no, the players themselves absolutely refused to consider any action. They could have done something; they refused.

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I highly doubt that having their realm defeated and forced to split in two had zero effect upon the player's decisions afterwards though :p
I won't deny that being defeated and losing half your realm is frustrating; I've lost plenty of realms over the years I've played. But for comparison of how lenient the terms were, these are the same realms that wanted to annihilated Luria as a realm entirely. The peace (I negotiated and wrote it with the player of Alastor primarily, who consulted with the fissoan government under Aran) was specifically meant to improve Dwilight, as has nearly every lurian policy. The peace consisted of creating more realms so there can be closer refit wars, extending communication structures to give players more people to talk to and encouraging membership in ruler and new member bulletins, roleplay marriages/tournaments between the realms, a food tribute to luria, and a roleplay term about joint elephant training exercises between the realms. The only effective land difference for Luria? They gained Palm Sea. So valuable...

Sure, might you and I, being on opposite sides of the conflict disagree about the results of that attempted island-improvement due to different IC perspectives, but my point is we have been trying to give players more *opportunity* to drive the game themselves from what existed before. We can't control that they waste the opportunity.

Gundam really is right about the new realm; Lurians have absolutely had tense internal moments between themselves and westerners in the last year or so. Any attempted lurian imperialist expansion has, at least since my character has had an influence in lurian policy, been much much more soft policy than any hard policy 'vassals' you've described elsewhere. It's more of a 'we have same/similar ideals' than 'we are best friends for life!'. Extending communication structures/guilds originally lurian, but non-lurians given equal (Royal Rangers) or near-equal positions (Halls of Luria), but allowing characters to correspond with more people. Joining any of the religions on a continent is one of the best ways for this to occur, as well, but people insist on bringing their modern religious conceptions into their medievally-based character. Luria has (and still does) continuing disagreements with friends. We also realize the benefits of working together. I already know of some people's future plans that will frustrate my future plans. I think we may, despite the formal war and lack of any possible peace deal, be at possibly the friendliest d'haran-lurian relations in a great while.

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Aye, I certainly intend to keep any realms I am in from getting TOO big in the future too. Hopefully the new changes will help with that.
I'm really glad to learn that. Arnor concerns me with some things my character has seen from Helm; this is why its good to understand perspectives of characters on the opposite side of the politics. I don't think we'll ever see realms as big as Sirion, Riombara, CE, Tara, Luria etc. again with the new changes. I think the maximum a realm could grow is ~3 cities and that should be exceptional; most realms being 1-2 cities (plus strongholds, townslands etc.).

JDodger

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #8: December 04, 2015, 05:46:37 AM »
The problem with those realms is the massive refit times they will have to deal with in any war. And you really can't expect a realm broken in two to go to civil war with each other just to have something to do. That's a fake and lame war. Plus the fact that any invasion will have to be by ship, which gets expensive.

The southern part of Dwilight is unfortunately very bad geography without the western side of the continent. That big no man's land between Fissoa and Shinnen/Giask really makes it hard for anything interesting. If Irvington was a city it'd be a lot better. But Luria would probably own it.
Why then Selenia should DEFINITELY come to visit? Richer AND Happier you say? That must be seen to be believed.

Vita

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #9: December 04, 2015, 05:59:02 AM »
My (attempted) unbiased review of realms on Dwilight, from south to north.

Madina: Dead. Easy for a group to achieve an internal coup. Borders roguelands.
Fissoa: Slightly less dead than Madina. Seems to have some active players struggling to attract attention, lately. Between largest realm on island (Luria) and Madina. I think there's some narrative-roleplaying types here.
Luria: Largest realm on island, engaged in long-distance war to colonize a foreign land. Long-time ancient rivalry with D'Hara that ebbs and flows. Recent diaspora of its nobles to new realms. Narrative-roleplaying, politicking, religiosity.
D'Hara: Squeezed between roguelands and east Dwilight. Talkative politicking and narrative-roleplaying types here.
Swordfell: Between Luria and the Former Morek Empire, wealthy, long periods of quiet with spikes of activity, been playing at peace and neutrality between larger spheres of influence since foundation. Politicking and religiosity.
Astrum: Theocracy of SA, quiet, but becoming more invigorated with defending their realm from Luria and Helyg Derwyddon. Religiosity. Close war.
Helyg Derwyddon: Close war on their border, somewhat involved in colonizing Astrum with Luria (some westerners reside in HD). Religiosity (probably least of all the realms I tagged with this).
Morek Empire: The remnants from all the secessions. Been troubled and changing rulers and foreign policy between two 'larger' sides on Dwilight. Few players, but a very active portion of those players, so can be quickly talkative place. Easy for a group to achieve internal coup. Religiosity.
Antiqualia: Close war on border with Arnor, but lack of ability to really do much atm (limited recruits and other resources). Enough players might change that akin to DSS on EC.
Arnor: Trying to bring AQ to peace via war. Seeking to hold itself independent without foreign influence in the north. Expects much war ahead.

Edit: Realize I forgot to mention above that Astrum and Arnor border roguelands as well.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 07:51:01 AM by Vita »

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #10: December 04, 2015, 05:59:16 AM »
Vita, You end your statement suggesting big realms such as Luria not existing so large in the future. Does that mean that you think these realms (Luria for instance) will very quickly collapse to a smaller size or just that it will be harder to establish that size in the future?
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Vita

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #11: December 04, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »
Mostly the latter. The former depends somewhat on the players.

Once the changes go into effect, it *will* be harder to maintain them at current sizes, yes. Especially if lords haven't reduced their tax rates. Will they immediately collapse no, but it will hurt. They will not operate at the same efficiency as before. I expect them to decrease in size more as a result from external pressure simultaneous to the internal pressures, or from ambitious dukes striking out on their own.

I expect Riombara to have the hardest time just for sheer lack of lords to actually change the tax rates. Luria and Sirion might navigate the future a bit more smoothly because they don't have as much lordlessness. But both those will be taking regional hits after it goes into effect.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:06:19 AM by Vita »

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #12: December 04, 2015, 06:24:36 AM »
I find its effects interesting on Dwilight, because this could actually strengthen Luria rather than weaken it depending upon how the players choose to play it. Luria is already structured as an empire. It wouldn't take any effort at all to revert to city state members of an empire rather than a single realm empire.
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Vita

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #13: December 04, 2015, 06:31:21 AM »
Yes, we've some interesting plans for Luria ahead, if we can just finish oppressing the rest of known Dwilight before Doom hits us. ;)

Dante Silverfire

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Re: Which interesting realms to join in Dwilight?
« Reply #14: December 04, 2015, 06:41:45 AM »
Yes, we've some interesting plans for Luria ahead, if we can just finish oppressing the rest of known Dwilight before Doom hits us. ;)

Just don't have CE and Tara emigrate to Luria, because then the doom will truly be upon Dwilight
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