They inevitably lose the war, get forced to sign some treaty that restricts them to living in virtual subservience to their neighbor, whether that's intentional or not. There's nothing either of the realms could have done. So everyone gets frustrated and goes inactive, and the realms wither and die. We have seen this many, many times.
I really disagree here. The only option they didn't have was to attack Luria (which, even that, I think was time-limited because I hate diplomatic limitations in treaties). Luria's reaction to anything else would've been significantly muted.
Now sure, characters have different IC backgrounds that discourage the likelihood of taking certain actions, but we, as a community of players, also *really* need to get out of the My Guy Syndrome being so strong that you can't even play your character, but sit around twiddling your thumbs. No, you as a player can make changes, they don't have to be life-shattering, so that the game can be an enjoyable experience. And in my view, this is something that rulers and governments should be *more* expected to do than the average knight.
What could Madina or Fissoa done in their local vicinity? All are ideas I know was expressed to various characters of theirs at certain points (yes, even the anti-lurian ones) via IC discussion. Had a civil war between each other. Invaded D'hara (resentment from their diplomatic fallout). Invaded Swordfell (Swordfell was about to invade Madina a short time prior, even). Assisted Luria against Astrum. None of them even had to be very long-term, but could just be *something* to do until something *better* is available. Look at VT and Perdan's ruler-orchestrated war. While I seriously disagree with components of it, the players at least *did* something. They found a way to make a war that didn't see either realm destroyed, kept their players, and attracted more players to a war with a shorter refit time and engaging internal discussion (damn democracies).
But no, the players themselves absolutely refused to consider any action. They could have done something; they refused.
I highly doubt that having their realm defeated and forced to split in two had zero effect upon the player's decisions afterwards though :p
I won't deny that being defeated and losing half your realm is frustrating; I've lost plenty of realms over the years I've played. But for comparison of how lenient the terms were, these are the same realms that wanted to annihilated Luria as a realm entirely. The peace (I negotiated and wrote it with the player of Alastor primarily, who consulted with the fissoan government under Aran) was specifically meant to improve Dwilight, as has nearly every lurian policy. The peace consisted of creating more realms so there can be closer refit wars, extending communication structures to give players more people to talk to and encouraging membership in ruler and new member bulletins, roleplay marriages/tournaments between the realms, a food tribute to luria, and a roleplay term about joint elephant training exercises between the realms. The only effective land difference for Luria? They gained Palm Sea. So valuable...
Sure, might you and I, being on opposite sides of the conflict disagree about the results of that attempted island-improvement due to different IC perspectives, but my point is we have been trying to give players more *opportunity* to drive the game themselves from what existed before. We can't control that they waste the opportunity.
Gundam really is right about the new realm; Lurians have absolutely had tense internal moments between themselves and westerners in the last year or so. Any attempted lurian imperialist expansion has, at least since my character has had an influence in lurian policy, been much much more soft policy than any hard policy 'vassals' you've described elsewhere. It's more of a 'we have same/similar ideals' than 'we are best friends for life!'. Extending communication structures/guilds originally lurian, but non-lurians given equal (Royal Rangers) or near-equal positions (Halls of Luria), but allowing characters to correspond with more people. Joining any of the religions on a continent is one of the best ways for this to occur, as well, but people insist on bringing their modern religious conceptions into their medievally-based character. Luria has (and still does) continuing disagreements with friends. We also realize the benefits of working together. I already know of some people's future plans that will frustrate my future plans. I think we may, despite the formal war and lack of any possible peace deal, be at possibly the friendliest d'haran-lurian relations in a great while.
Aye, I certainly intend to keep any realms I am in from getting TOO big in the future too. Hopefully the new changes will help with that.
I'm really glad to learn that. Arnor concerns me with some things my character has seen from Helm; this is why its good to understand perspectives of characters on the opposite side of the politics. I don't think we'll ever see realms as big as Sirion, Riombara, CE, Tara, Luria etc. again with the new changes. I think the maximum a realm could grow is ~3 cities and that should be exceptional; most realms being 1-2 cities (plus strongholds, townslands etc.).
