Xavax Imperium

[JDodger]

I assume you mean Iraq, not Afghanistan. Those geography lessons :3

his reasons for attacking afghanistan were bs too, either one works for the point.

most wars are started on flimsy to downright false pretenses in both rl and bm, I put zero stock in casus belli personally (as can be clearly seen by the effort put into westfold's casus belli for the swordfell war).but really no one needs a casus belli to fight xavax that hasnt already been handed to them by xavax.

[GundamMerc]

his reasons for attacking afghanistan were bs too, either one works for the point.

most wars are started on flimsy to downright false pretenses in both rl and bm, I put zero stock in casus belli personally (as can be clearly seen by the effort put into westfold's casus belli for the swordfell war).but really no one needs a casus belli to fight xavax that hasnt already been handed to them by xavax.

Ok, you're the one making these RL political claims in a thread where RL politics doesn't really belong.

A. You're wrong.
B. Even if you're right, this is the wrong place for it.

I don't care what your personal feelings regarding him as a president are, don't start bringing in current-day politics into these forums, except for the Off-Game sub-forum, to try and "prove" your opinion. It's hardly a 1-to-1 analogy anyways, so your point is rather weak.

I could go further, but choose not to.

[JeVondair]

Ok, you're the one making these RL political claims in a thread where RL politics doesn't really belong.

A. You're wrong.
B. Even if you're right, this is the wrong place for it.

I don't care what your personal feelings regarding him as a president are, don't start bringing in current-day politics into these forums, except for the Off-Game sub-forum, to try and "prove" your opinion. It's hardly a 1-to-1 analogy anyways, so your point is rather weak.

I could go further, but choose not to.

Such vehemence! No, my friend. I'm afraid you do not have the luxury of being able to pout, shout "YOU'RE WRONG" and declare and end to the matter. Not with me at any rate. The analogy stands. Vix is attacking Xavax not for any of the reasons they stipulated, not even because they just don't like Selenia. They're attacking because they want war, and they do not want to see Xavax get any more power than it already has. Basically, they're lying, saving face to cover up their diplomatically unpalatable agenda. Like JDodger said, its an old tactic, both IG and IRL...sound familiar? This is a simulator, is it not? The forums are precisely where these sort of comparisons belong. Now all of Vix's neighbors should worry. If Vix can contrive such reasons to pick a fight with Xavax, what happens if the decide they want to pick a fight with us? What's next? A policy of appeasement, perhaps? Because that sounds familiar too...

If it means that much to you, start your subthread. We can elope on our own tangents while the others have fun discussing the game

[steelabjur@aol.com]

JeVondair, please remember that we have a wide variety of players from all types and age groups, that includes vets and those who lost loved ones who might see the comparison insulting. Also, while the game has simulator-like qualities, warfare and politics during the medieval period that this game seeks to emulate and modern times are very different things, so different that comparison is unwarranted.

And I'm not just saying that because I disagree with the comparison. Let's play nice everyone.

[JeVondair]

Perhaps I was being insensitive. It's not usually something I let go, but I will tone down.

[Wimpie]

Nah wrong.

We did war you for exactly those reasons, which Jeames was stating by heart. The fact that we wanted a war and that we don't want Xavax to absorb the whole south are obvious reasons as well. This does not mean I need to state them specifically. Because either way, you would have disagreed with them, which is normal.

The bottom line is that you have angered the nobles of a democracy. They get to hold referendums and one of them was to war xavax. As a ruler, you don't have much choice but to give in to their demands or step down from your position. And that last one wasn't something I was giving up, and surely not with the tone Selenia spoke to Jeames 

[Gabanus family]

Plus, Vix is hardly the only realm to declare war for flimsy reasons. In fact, the reasoning of Vix seems to be quite good from what I've seen so far. I've seen far worse. Also, "I want more regions" in my eyes would be a perfectly good reason for war as well, or a "You did not pay proper respect to our ruler" :-)

[JeVondair]

*shrugs*

Very well. The Imperial High Command of Xavax developed a strategic model based on this very situation. It starts with "L" and ends with "enkins"

Let's do this. 

[Anaris]

Chicken! Get yer popcorn chicken here!

[GundamMerc]

Such vehemence! No, my friend. I'm afraid you do not have the luxury of being able to pout, shout "YOU'RE WRONG" and declare and end to the matter. Not with me at any rate. The analogy stands. Vix is attacking Xavax not for any of the reasons they stipulated, not even because they just don't like Selenia. They're attacking because they want war, and they do not want to see Xavax get any more power than it already has. Basically, they're lying, saving face to cover up their diplomatically unpalatable agenda. Like JDodger said, its an old tactic, both IG and IRL...sound familiar? This is a simulator, is it not? The forums are precisely where these sort of comparisons belong. Now all of Vix's neighbors should worry. If Vix can contrive such reasons to pick a fight with Xavax, what happens if the decide they want to pick a fight with us? What's next? A policy of appeasement, perhaps? Because that sounds familiar too...

If it means that much to you, start your subthread. We can elope on our own tangents while the others have fun discussing the game

My point was that modern day politics don't have a place in this thread. Discussing it any further would have derailed the thread (which we are doing now), undermining my entire argument. As others have stated, not only does it inevitably lead to a general flame-war, but comparing the politics of a medieval world with the politics of a modern one is a moot point.

[JeVondair]

My point was that modern day politics don't have a place in this thread. Discussing it any further would have derailed the thread (which we are doing now), undermining my entire argument. As others have stated, not only does it inevitably lead to a general flame-war, but comparing the politics of a medieval world with the politics of a modern one is a moot point.

We may just have to disagree there. Names change, people change, but basic political trends remain the same if only in different contexts. I am trying, albeit not very hard, to let it go. But if you want, I am happy to delve deeper.

[JeVondair]

We may just have to disagree there. Names change, people change, but basic political trends remain the same if only in different contexts. Comparisons are therefore valid. I picked the wrong one and I am trying, albeit not very hard, to let it go. But if you want, I am happy to delve deeper.

[JDodger]

legal heroin

and also the taliban offered to hand over bin laden at least a week before the initial offensive

 all you gotta know about afghanistan

9/11 was staged too 

[steelabjur@aol.com]

We may just have to disagree there. Names change, people change, but basic political trends remain the same if only in different contexts. I am trying, albeit not very hard, to let it go. But if you want, I am happy to delve deeper.

Wars under the feudal obligation system were very different than wars during and after the formation of nationalism, both in size and purpose. With the death of monarchy as the primary form of government, so to died the casus belli of blood claims. Not to mention the creation and adoption of programs like levée en masse compared to medieval levies, which allowed the creation of the Grande Armée, which changed how everyone viewed war. Shieet, now you got me doing it. 

[Ketchum]

Well, Selenia DID attack Alara because Robb Starfall was building a coalition to hem Xavax in as evidenced by his alliance with 3/4 realms on our borders, and an extra fourth in Minas Nova just in case. The MN flip was still one of the more annoying parts of this war. Warchief was initially courting Selenia AGAINST Alara. Then when she declares war, he flips. ugh.

In any case, to your point, no, Xavax def chose its position just as Oligarch chose theirs. We just had a better list to choose from.

Perhaps bluntness of Selenia or other characters are what we needed to spice this game up. Whether in Xavax or elsewhere, a clash of personalities between characters, some conflicts, disagreements IC... All these serve up as interesting side plates to the main course. Spice game up or spice the war up, your call whether name you wish it to be

Plus, Vix is hardly the only realm to declare war for flimsy reasons. In fact, the reasoning of Vix seems to be quite good from what I've seen so far. I've seen far worse. Also, "I want more regions" in my eyes would be a perfectly good reason for war as well, or a "You did not pay proper respect to our ruler" :-)

Yes, it is even better than Nivemus reason for war previously on Perdan: "to assist our ally Eponllyn"