Author Topic: What is the proper channel to use when another player is OOC attacking you?  (Read 2197 times)

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Want to put this up as a question/guideline for all players, old or new.  I'm sure we've all seen this from time to time. Unfortunately, in too many venues - real-life or social media, forums, etc - the people in charge tend to shrug and say, "we don't really have proof - what can we do?"

There are times when two players simply don't get along for whatever reason, and one player takes it upon himself to constantly in-game harass the other family via all his players, with in-game comments that go beyond civil disagreement with the discussion.

Like real-life, this is difficult to prove and yet obvious when it's happening. The first, early action is to use the "ignore" button, but this makes it more difficult for the harassed player to fully play and enjoy the game (as they are not getting all of the orders & discussions) and is unfair as it punishes the person being harassed and lets the harasser continue. The harassed player starts to want to play less, be less involved, or avoid certain realms which is also unfair.

A Titan complaint is another step, but I'm afraid a great many players are often disappointed by the Titan's logic & narrowly restricting themselves to cases of provable cheating and rule-breaking.  In cases of harassment the "proof" is often subtle and elusive. I know we already have a code of conduct against harassment but I'm wondering if it is adequate to actually protect a player?

I believe, both here and anywhere else in life, there should be ZERO TOLERANCE for this sort of thing. So while a particular case may not be much, "not much" is more than zero and should be dealt with early.

How should players deal with this? Is it enough to train the Titans to look more closely at cases where accusations of harassment are involved, or should we have a different channel for it?



Zakilevo

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Contact the titans.

Noone you know

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Does this go with " Is it enough to train the Titans to look more closely at cases where accusations of harassment are involved".

As I said, I think many players are not overly confident of the Titans ability to deal with this sort of thing unless it is painfully provable. Perhaps that's not the case.

Zakilevo

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Well... What options do you have? You can always choose to vent things here but will that solve anything?

Or you can try to solve it in game. Titans will look at the situation and will decide. They will probably not going to just listen to you and decide right away. They will investigate and see if you have been offended. It all depends on how their investigation goes.

Noone you know

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Yes, but my concerns are:

1) They do not typically look at subtleties very well. This is something that requires a bit of "touchy-feely". So my only concern here is that they understand they should consider that context in cases where the specific complaint is about harassment.

2) A bigger concern is that it often takes them months to deal with even straightforward cases. That's not going to work if someone is being systematically harassed on a regular basis.

 "What options do you have?". Yes, that's exactly what I'm asking here. What other options might there be, or what changes to let the Titans better deal with it?

 

Zakilevo

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They do sometimes take too long but they are volunteers so I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Not sure how subtle your case is but if it is too subtle, you might just be being a bit too sensitive or too thin skinned.

As for other options, you can try talking to people on IRC. That usually gets someone's attention pretty quickly.

Noone you know

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It's not "my case". I don't have a case; I'm asking for the game in general.

However, let me give you a quick life tip you want to take very seriously:

If you are ever involved in any way with a real-life harassment case, do not under ANY circumstances, EVER suggest to the person complaining that  "you might just be being a bit too sensitive or too thin skinned"

Ever. Even if you don't understand why not, and 100% disagree with me, take my advice. NEVER say that.

In the meantime, I'd like to hear other people give opinions.

Anaris

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The answer is "Report it to the Titans, and include a clear indication that this is ongoing harassment."

I can promise you that, provided I have the time, I will personally look into any such claims. I'm not even limited by the 30-day message timeout. After the Alexandros Stavrou case of a few years ago, we are well aware of the subtleties, frustrations, and dangers of long-term harassment in small ways.

If you don't trust the Titans, then I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you.

If you don't trust me, then I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you.

I do not promise to automatically convict someone merely based on an accusation of harassment and a claim that "this is hard to investigate and understand, so you will just have to trust me and punish him."

I do promise to give such claims the attention they deserve, and attempt to work out a suitable remedy, even if it's not one of the normal Titan punishments.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

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That all sounds like a good enough solution. I think the point that was more important was to be able to be clear that "this one needs flagged". Thanks for the clear answer.

I don't think it was a question of "trust" as in worried about bad intentions, just that they tend to take a "Supreme Court" style of things, where I (personally) think they could look at the big picture a little more sometimes.

(FYI - the reasoning behind asking this has nothing to do with anything in the game atm. I'm a php programmer and we've been dealing with a lot of harassment, Code of Conduct, etc type issues over the last year or so; I was asking myself what would I do if I needed to report something like this in BM, and I wasn't completely sure there was a good answer.)

Indirik

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Harassment cases are difficult, especially when the harassment is not public. Judgments are almost universally protested, resulting in big public outcries, no matter which way the decision goes.

I don't think anyone can promise anything more than "we will look into it".

One thing that will help: if you think someone is harassing you, save the messages. What I've seen happen is that someone days they are being harassed, but there's only one marginal message in the history. Well, that's just not enough, even if you claim it is only the latest in a long stream. So, save them. Copy them all into the report. If they don't all fit, say you have more, and can deliver them by email. Or send them to the Titans email address.

Given the harassment that we have seen in the not too distant past, we have to take a hard line with it. But we also have to be careful to not act rashly. We are aware that some people attempt to harass by using Titans reports.
If at first you don't succeed, don't take up skydiving.

Miriam Ics

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If you are ever involved in any way with a real-life harassment case, do not under ANY circumstances, EVER suggest to the person complaining that  "you might just be being a bit too sensitive or too thin skinned"

Ever. Even if you don't understand why not, and 100% disagree with me, take my advice. NEVER say that.

In the meantime, I'd like to hear other people give opinions.

Can't agree more. Who decides whether what happened is offensive is the victim, not the offender. Always.

This question is never easy to deal with but I believe we have good solutions at BM.
"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces."

Blue Star

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I'd harass someone, but it be all in-character and not toward the player. Wait that is not what we are talking about is it.... damn white rabbits taunting me again.  ::)
I think like a sinner. Curse like a sailor. Smile like a saint. :)

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